By LG

Millions of people watched as the Browns played the Denver Broncos in week 16 of the regular 2012 season. Millions of people saw Colt McCoy drive the Browns offense down the field and score a touchdown with a pass to Greg Little. Can you imagine Brandon Weeden coming into a game and lead the Browns into the end-zone after sitting on the bench for most of the season?

McCoy was able to do what Weeden failed to do more often than not. The Browns stunk in the red zone in 2012 and you can credit Mr. Weeden for that. How many times did we see the guy try to throw a touch pass into the corner of the end zone while the Browns were inside the 10 yard line? McCoy could have won more than 5 games in the 2012 season and there is no question about it.

People are trying to compare apples to oranges with the Weeden to McCoy comparison. People have to realize Brandon Weeden had a much more productive offense than McCoy did. In 2011 you had an injured Hardesty, a Peyton Hillis who was in a fight with the front office over money and a Greg Little who couldn’t catch. The Offensive line was totally offensive when it came to protecting the quarterback and the special teams were anything but special.

If you put McCoy on the field last year with the same player that Weeden had there is no doubt he could have won more games. The Browns were much more talented in 2012 than they were in 2011. The team came into a shortened training camp due to the lockout and there wasn’t even time for McCoy to learn Shurmur’s offense. For anyone to think McCoy couldn’t have played better in the 2012 season they should make a appointment with a doctor and have their heads examined.

The first thing people say is McCoy doesn’t have the arm strength. That is people who didn’t see the passes McCoy would throw in College when he had the time. Weeden had twice the time than McCoy had in 2011 to throw a pass. You put McCoy out on the field and let him throw the ball giving him twice the time and I’ll guarantee you he comes out with a higher passer rating than Mr. Inaccurate Weeden.

Then there is the argument people put up about Weeden beating the Pittsburgh Steelers. Those are people who don’t remember the Thursday night game in Pittsburgh in 2011 when McCoy was able to drive the Browns down the field and it was Hillis who failed to find the end zone on 3 tries. McCoy damn near beat the Steelers that night and if he didn’t get his bell rang and Haden didn’t blow a coverage the Browns would have beaten the Steelers with their starting quarterback at the helm.

The Brown don’t need to bring in a quarterback to compete with Weeden, they already have one. Let McCoy and Weeden battle it out in camp and through the Preseason and let the better quarterback lead the team in 2013. It probably won’t be Weeden……

 

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Readers Comments (74)

  1. blackflag

    you hit all the right arguments. in summary, browns mgt created a situation where none needed to be created. now they’re gone and the mess remains. all that can be done is to let them compete…wait, isn’t that the plan?

     
    • ABrown

      Yep, that’s what the article is about. The old staff made a mess. This year there should be a real competition. I think all but the most devoted McCoy haters can agree with that.

       
  2. RB

    Good morning LG. There will be a quarterback competition this year so we will see, but here is a hint for you: If they’re bringing in competition for the QB competition not only do they no have confidence in Weeden, they are not sold on McCoy either. Translated, that means this is the 2nd coaching staff that is not sold on Colt McCoy as a starting NFL QB. Another conspiracy?

    You can coulda, woulda shoulda all you want, but those are the facts.

    More facts: We beat the Steelers this year. McCoy “ALMOST” beat the Steelers. Put some spin on that if you must but the end results are the same. We had more wins in the division this year than last year, and chances are you aren’t going to the playoffs without divisional wins.

    Complain all you want about moving the chains and red zone, but the Browns still scored more points (more than 6 points a game) this year than last.

    You also say McCoy did this in college and that in college. He’s not in college anymore.

    McCoy is a C grade QB and Weeden is more than likely the same. We’ll see what happens with a different offense.

    Yes, Weeden had more talent around him, but the west coast offense is designed around someone with a skillset like McCoys. So I call it a wash.

    In the past you have ranted and raved about Brown fans settling for mediocrity. “The Brown don’t need to bring in a quarterback to compete with Weeden, they already have one” is settling for mediocrity.

    So what are you worried about? Those who believe Weeden is a better option than McCoy are fine with them bringing more people in for a QB competition. Whoever wins is fine by me, and they will have my support.

     
    • LG

      I haven’t seen them bring in a quarterback yet. Have you RB? Have you seen a new Q.B. signed to the team? Lots of speculation but no new guys in Browns town yet is there?

       
      • Leon II

        At this point you are right it is a lot of speculation. But at the same time just because one hasn’t been brought in doesn’t mean the Browns won’t. It just means their is nobody who isn’t under contract that they like. As for the QBs on rosters who will become free agents this year, well you can’t even talk to them until March 4 so we have to wait and see. Until then it is speculation.

        As for our current roster well that is speculation as well. I like McCoy but if he doesn’t clearly beat out every other QB on the roster they will try to move him again. Sadly I think moving him is the most probable. Weeden will be a Brown for at least one maybe two more years even if he doesn’t project as a starter in the new offense. Guaranteed money and lack of trade partners will insure that he rides the pines as a back-up. We won’t keep 4 QBs on the roster so what happens with Thad Lewis and Josh Johnson is totally dependent on what happens in free agency and with Weeden and McCoy. One of them may wear orange and brown in 2013 but not both.

         
        • LG

          Lets give them a shot and see what happens. That is all I am saying

           
      • RB

        The success of Luck, RGIII and Wilson are exceptions to the rule. It normally doesn’t happen that way.

        As Matthew has said, Free Agency doesn’t start until March. They can’t bring anyone in until then.

        Weeden was far from perfect, but better coaching and a different offensive philosophy will hopefully result in improved performance from the QB position. We should see fewer bat-downs and fewer int’s.

        The Browns offense scored 8 more touch downs and 5 more field goals in 2012 than in 2011. Statistically speaking, the offense was better in 2012 than 2011.

        The Browns defense gave up 13 more touch downs but 9 fewer field goals in 2012. Statistically speaking, the defense was better in 2011 than 2012.

        So one could argue that Weeden won 5 games with an offense that scored more points and with a defense that gave up more points.

        But none of this really matters. Last year is history.

         
        • LG

          RB, this is where you and I disagree. I feel that if you pay someone millions of dollars that you drafted in the first round of an NFL draft, they damn well better produce.

           
        • ABrown

          The 2012 running game produced more TDs. The 2011 running game was at the bottom of the NFL in that category.

          The defense produced TDs and the defense and special teams produced more field goals.

          But Weeden produced the same number of TDs that McCoy produced but it took him 2 more games.

          This year the passing offense ranked 28 in the league in points while the rushing offense ranked 13th.

          In 2011 the passing offense ranked 27 while the rushing offense ranked 32nd. (Pro Football Reference) In 2011 we also missed more field goals.

          As long as Weeden can’t throw the fade pass, he’s going to have trouble in the Red Zone.

           
  3. HD

    The preseason competition was a joke. McCoy easily was the better Quarterback. Haslam should have fired Shurmur and Holgrem when he closed the purchase deal in October. It’s unfortunate for the fans that we had to endure yet another painful season. LG, its obvious your not a Weeden supporter but lets face it, Weeden never had a chance to succeed. He should have been carrying a clipboard until he learned the offense. McCoy should have been the starter but far be it from the egomaniac Holgrem to allow common sense to rule. Holgrem had his boy and regardless of how painful it was going to be he was going to start him. I agree with you that we would have won at least three more games if the Quarterback was different. Needing to pay a satellite company every year to watch my team lose is pretty disheartening. This team is about 5 players short of being real contenders. Hopefully Haslam will get 3 of them through free agency and draft the other 2. We can start winning now. We have waited long enough. I would like to see another Browns championship before I’m gone since I haven’t seen one since 64. I have been following this team for 50+ years.

     
    • LG

      HD, if the guy was a winner I would be a supporter, the guy don’t have it man…..You think he had trouble last year, he has to learn a new offense this year….

       
      • HD

        LG your right. He didn’t improve throughout the season. He admits he has trouble with the playbook and he looked like a deer in the headlights. He can’t throw a touch pass, reminds me of DA in that aspect. His passes get blocked by linemen way too often. He telegraphs his passes. For someone with a cannon for an arm he under threw to Benjamin too many times. I understand when the new management says their not sold on him because nobody else is either. My point was that Holgrem had Shurmur started him and he wasn’t ready nor was he the best Quarterback on the team. He probably will never be ready because I don’t think he has it either.

         
        • LG

          Well said HD

           
  4. RICK

    LG, I know would of should of could of as usual.I am glad you are proud of the (1)drive Colt had this year but that hardly proves nothing on what could of been it’s just your usual speculation. Keep up the campain though, maybe somebody is listening.

     
    • LG

      The point is Rick, given the chance he would have won more games I’ll bet. He looked good in the preseason much better than Weeden did…

       
      • Tom Wynne

        and saying Colt looked better than Weeden(a rookie with 0 experience then)in the PRE-SEASON is just silly!!!

         
        • LG

          Might be silly but it is the truth..Weeden had years of experience in MLB. So lets not pretend he was your normal rookie, he is far from that….Now we know why he couldn’t make it in Baseball….

           
          • tigersbrowns2

            LG , LG , LG … no matter how you spin it , this was weeden’s rookie season in the nfl.

            and we all know the rookie year is a learning experience for MOST qb’s.

             
          • LG

            Look at RG3 Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson and a few others. I am pretty darn sure they were rookies too…

             
        • ABrown

          So, Tom, you think there’s no way a rookie will look better than a player with some NFL experience?

          What about Russell Wilson? He looked better than Matt Flynn, and Seattle had the guts to play the guy who played best and actually won the job in preseason. Luck and Griffin also looked better than their backups.

          In Cleveland, Weeden showed us all the problems he would have in the regular season, and couldn’t beat out the guy he was supposed to beat.

          But, unlike Seattle, Cleveland played the guy who couldn’t win the job.

          And by the end of 2012, no one in the Browns new management saw him as having won the job all year.

           
  5. Ron Artman

    Your missing one point. Mc Coy arm never would have made it thru the season. I don’t think he is able to play a whole year. I still think Weeden will become a better than avg QB. Give him another year

     
    • LG

      Hey Weeden didn’t make it a whole year either…..

       
      • RICK

        LG, Colt played at the end of the Denver game and then supposively got hurt in practice or something and didn’t even play the last game for GODS sake. The Denver game might have been the only game all year that he threw a pass so I wouldn’t hype him up to much. Management has some important decisions to make soon, then we will find out what is in store for us this season. I think we are improved all ready with a solid coaching staff so it’s up to them.

         
  6. djp

    McCoy was not given proper oppurtunity. To say weeden beat stellers is not accurate. I watched all games and McCoy was coaching and talking with offensive coordinator, not on bench like Quinn did. McCoy may not have the skill sets, but he has heart and is a “Brown”….that will win more games than running scared like weeden.

     
    • ABrown

      You’re right, DJP. I saw that, too. Something else I noticed was Weeden looking unhappy whenever the coaches tried to talk to him between drives.

      McCoy loves the game and will always put all his energy into studying it and trying to find ways to defeat the other team and win.

       
  7. tigersbrowns2

    hi LG … sorry man , you know me … this is nothing but pure speculation. you can talk about “more productive offense” , hardesty’s injury , hillis’ contract dispute & hillis failing to get in the end-zone against the steelers all you want … the bottom line is STILL, mccoy is 6-15 as a starter.

    to listen to you , ABROWN , BOB & others , you would think that mccoy has no weaknesses … i don’t wanna hear he would’ve done better than weeden , i wanna hear from you guys what weaknesses mccoy has. ’cause if he has none his record would be better than 6-15 & other teams would be jumping to get him.

    as a weeden supporter i will give you guys one thing … and, i have admitted it in the past … the browns should’ve started the season with mccoy & adjusted as the season went along , if necessary. but that obviously didn’t happen , now did it ??

    now , i will make an appointment with a doctor to have my head examined.

    have a good one …

     
    • LG

      Put him in with the guys we have now and I’ll bet you a good dinner out on the town he wins more than 5 games….

       
    • ABrown

      TB2, you want to talk about McCoy’s record of 6 and 15. Let’s do that. In 2010, McCoy faced the toughest schedule in the history of the Cleveland Browns (look at Pro Football Reference, Franchise Encyclopedia, and the 8 games McCoy played). This was a more difficult schedule that Sipe faced in 1975 and went 3 and 11, much more difficult than the schedule that destroyed Anderson in 2008.

      Then in 2011, McCoy faced the 19th most difficult schedule out of 64 years. But the 2011 and 2012 teams were essentially tied in performance rating.

      Same performance but better players and the 44th most difficult schedule in 2012 — among the easiest on record.

      The 2012 team and the 2007 team both faced very easy schedules — historically easy — but Anderson won 10 and only lost 5. Weeden could only win half as many.

      I’ve asked you this before and didn’t get an answer. Why didn’t Weeden win more games in 2012, like Anderson did in 2007?

       
      • LG

        ABrown, I often wonder what relationship TB2 is to Weeden….

         
      • tigersbrowns2

        hi ABROWN … what a pleasure it is to have you hammering me …

        hmmmm … anderson was not a rookie in 2007 … weeden was a rookie.
        and obviously, weeden struggled mightily his rookie year … it happens.

        you keep bringing up mccoy’s strength of schedule … he was 6-15.
        bottom line.

        i am still waiting on a reply on mccoy’s weaknesses … care to share them with me ??

         
        • Bob

          I think some of us said many times that we would give McCoy’s weaknesses when he gets to play again with his fully healed arm. I also said he did finally throw in the Denver game and what did he do? He had a 80 yard touchdown drive. So I have nothing bad to say about his play in 2012.

          Therefore, I believe that Weeden would not have even been drafted by the Browns if at least two things (among many other reasons) did not happen during the 2011 season:

          1. Greg Little dropping perfectly thrown balls. If he caught at least 25% of the balls he dropped in the 2011 season, the Browns would have had more wins.

          2. Botched snaps late in at least 2 of the games in 2011 to Dawson. If those snaps were not messed up. The Browns would have had two more wins.

          McCoy did his part getting the ball to Little & McCoy should not have to hold the ball for snaps when he already got them in position to make field goals.

           
          • ABrown

            One other thing, Bob. In 2011, the fans were ready to lynch Shurmur because he was such a bad coach. Yesterday, I saw a letter to the fans from Holmgren trying to defend Shurmur and calm everyone down.

            By the end of the year nothing had improved but Shurmur had brought the wrath of the NFL down on the Browns for being dumb enough to break NFL rules and play McCoy with a concussion to try to win a game.

            Shurmur realized he was toast unless he could blame someone else for the 2011 season. So he blamed McCoy and asked for a new QB. Then he had to play him no matter how bad he played. Shurmur finally got what he deserved.

            But the Browns fans got screwed just as much as McCoy did.

             
      • Bob

        McCoy beat the Saints & Patriots in hi rookie year. Did Weeden beat a team coming off a Super Bowl in his rookie year?

         
        • ABrown

          That’s right, Bob. And we’ve been told over and over how much even good QBs struggle in their rookie years.

          I guess that means McCoy is really very good. Tony Dungy certainly thinks so. I just read some comments from him saying exactly that.

           
  8. Tom Wynne

    I see the love affair with Colt continues…if the Browns had more than 1 decent guy in their secondary, they would have won 3-4 more games. I’m guessing they will be silent(as usual) in the secondary come free agent time…and they’ll draft pass rush, linebacker, and receiver before addressing THIS MOST PRESSING NEED. I’m not saying “same old brownies however…I think Haslam may surprise!!!

     
  9. NINO

    I certainly agree with you guys..my take is that a quarterback must have escape-ability (speed), strong arm, quick ability to read the the defense, and above all, a very quick ability (mentally) to target his receiver without telegraphing who he’s going to throw to…(period)…personally, I don’t believe WEEDEN has that capability…when he has to run the ball, he almost hits the turf 3 to 5 yards before a defender closes in on him…don’t forget that in college, he operated from the shotgun where he had more time to scope the field…with the BROWNS, he was primarily a pocket passer, and couldn’t think fast enough in his scope of the field… MCcoy, on the other hand (maybe not a number one) has better escape-ability, doesn’t telegraph his throws, is able to read the defense, and can deliver the soft pass in the end zone better. when given the time WEEDEN had, Colt could have been more effective in delivering the ball to his receivers…on the other hand, our third stringer looked pretty good in the last game of the season too…in any case it should be a good shoot out in training camp…

     
    • ABrown

      Absolutely right. A real competition is what we need.

       
      • LG

        Looks like the competition may not be between Weeden. I just did an article about the new Browns management team wanting to deal weeden…..

         
    • Bob

      good post

       
  10. stivmarley

    Ok, Ok, are you kidding me? I’ve got a better idea. Mccoy is so great let’s just put him in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. LG, my suggestion is you move to Arizona and convince the Cardinal fans and team how great Mccoy could be for them. I’m not at all sure you have even seen Mccoy play in the NFL. The last time I saw McCoy he was being sacked almost every play. You are a MORON !

     
    • ABrown

      How many quarterbacks have you seen complete passes and score touchdowns when they are being sacked on every play? None!

      Without protection, a QB can’t function or can’t play to the best of his ability. McCoy in 2011 didn’t have the protection a quarterback needs.

      In the 4th quarter of the Denver game, Denver started blitzing and knocked out Weeden on the first sack.

      Then McCoy came in and was sacked on the first play. He kept on playing. He was sacked 3 more times.

      But McCoy stayed on the field. He found ways to defeat the blitz.

      He found a way to throw the ball away quickly, avoid more sacks, and avoid intentional grounding penalties. You Weeden supporters thought throwing the ball away, as McCoy did, was a bad play. Wrong.

      How did McCoy function in a situation that made Weeden ineffective all day and knocked him out of the game with one sack>

      He threw the ball away when necessary, he moved to escape the blitz and complete passes — including the only 2 long passes for Cleveland, thrown on a rope into tight sideline coverage and a TD pass to Little — he ran for positive yardage, including the longest run by a Brown all day, and he led an 80 yard drive for a touchdown — something the Browns hadn’t down all day with Weeden.

      And, he also used a pass to get an interference penalty that gained 19 yards because he could see the whole field, spot the interference, and think quick enough to throw the ball and get the ref’s attention.

      He didn’t quit at the first sign of trouble like Weeden did. He faced the pressure, adapted to it, and overcame it.

       
      • ABrown

        tivmarley, if you have actually watched McCoy play, you didn’t understand what you were seeing.

         
  11. Horton

    McCoy looked much better in preseason than Weeden. McCoy is a fighter and a winner, I’ve yet to see Weeden exemplify any of those traits. All I hear is about his arm strength. I don’t care how strong your arm is, you have to be able to hit your target. If I’m a boxer and I have a hell of a left hook, what good is it if I can’t hit anyone with it?

    I would chose McCoy over Weeden any day. I think Holmgen and Shurmur made some bad choices, but nothing that can’t be fixed.
    I think this new coaching staff is very smart and talented and just what the Browns need.

     
    • ABrown

      I think so, too, Horton. Good post.

       
  12. johnnyV

    Last time I checked Colt McCoy got paid to be “disrespecetd” by the Browns. Why isn’t LG working in the front office for some NFL team? Remember, the easiest thing to do is be a critic.

     
    • ABrown

      I guess that explains all the McCoy haters. It’s easier to attack about McCoy than think of anything good to say about your favorite guy Weeden.

       
  13. J Howard

    I seem to remember McCoy throwin the ball in the dirt 5 yards before reciever about 4 times. I think you just have man crush on him. Rumor has it McCoy does not fit turner’s offense.So you want them to do the same thing to McCoy they did to weeden Force him into system he does not fit.

     
    • Horton

      The CFL would be a good fit for Weeden.

       
    • ABrown

      Shurmur’s offense wasn’t any better for McCoy than it was for Weeden. All this poor Weeden he had to learn to drop back from under center and he was in the shotgun in college.

      So was McCoy, but McCoy doesn’t have two left feet, and he actually learns the offense he’s supposed to run, unlike Weeden. So McCoy played better in Shurmur’s offense than Weeden did, even with less talent to work with.

      More excuses for Weeden. Poor, poor Weeden.

      If he plays in Turner’s offense next year we’ll hear how that wasn’t good for Weeden either. How can he stretch the field if he can only complete 21% of his passes over 20 yards and does best when he’s throwing behind the line of scrimmage (ESPN).

       
  14. tigerbrowns2

    so , many of you are ready to give up on weeden after 1 season. take a look at how some hall-of-famers , mvp’s , super bowl winners & #1 overall draft picks did in their rookie season :

    player year td’s int’s comp % qb rating
    ——————————————————————
    elway 1983 7 14 47.5% 54.9
    p. manning 1998 26 28 56.7% 71.2
    bradshaw 1970 6 24 38.1% 30.4
    a. smith 2005 1 11 50.9% 40.8
    s.young 1985 3 8 52.2% 56.9
    e. mannning 2004 6 9 48.2% 55.4
    dilfer 1994 1 6 46.3% 36.3
    aikman 1989 9 18 52.9% 55.7
    simms 1979 13 14 50.6% 66.0

    note how particularly bad bradshaw & aikman were their rookie seasons.
    i believe they have 7 superbowl rings between them. i am not saying weeden will ever be a great qb , but this goes to show you don’t discount someone after only one season.

     
    • LG

      TB2 the guy sucks. He isn;t no Elway or any of the other great qb’s you talked about he is a Weeden a guy who cannot handle the pressure of playing in the NFL. Elway are you kidding me? Elway was one tough S.O.B. Weeden would break if he took the hits a John Elway took and Elway could run too….

       
      • tigersbrowns2

        if you say so …

         
      • Mike58

        LG, you are a total idiot!!! Quit talking about things that you “wish” would happen and just realize that the men in charge of the Browns will make their decisions based on evaluation of all the team, and available, personnel. Since you don’t have a clue you should wait and see what they do and just shut up!

         
        • ABrown

          Mike, that’s good advice. And since you clearly don’t have a clue and can’t talk football facts, just throw out insults, you should probably follow it.

          LG, on the other hand, takes the time to research what he writes about and is very good at doing what a sports commentator is supposed to do == stimulate discussion.

           
      • Matthew

        LG are you seriously still singing this same old tune? And you really want to bring up durability as an arguing point for McCoy? Colt was going to write and thank you for your support personally but he got a concussion logging on to his computer. C’mon you can not seriously beleive everything you write. This has to be to just stir things up. Bottom line, YOU WILL NEVER GET TO PROVE YOUR POINT CAUSE LAST SEASON IS DONE! Either way, If Colt was a better Qb, his name might have been brought up by the new owner or coaches but it’s really not. And again, we can’t bring on another qb for competition until March. So lets stop the Colt McCoy pity party and focus on the future of the Browns. Because brother, Colt ain’t it.

         
        • LG

          Are you kidding me? The guy took 10 times the beating Weden took and Weeden couldn’t even finish one season in the NFL…

           
        • Matthew

          Colt couldn’t last one whole game last season jackass!! What happened after that glorious drive you love to talk about? Did Colt start game 17 or did Thad Lewis? Did Saneca Wallace have to come in and take over after McCoy got concussed the prior season? So Colt hasn’t really made it through a season injury free, or started 16 games in a season either has he? I’m going off of pure memory so please correct me if I’m wrong. I’ll leave you to your fact finding.

           
          • LG

            Mathew, anyone would have had a problem with a hit like the cheap shot artist Harrison laid on McCoy. If Weeden took that hit he still wouldn’t know who he is. As far as not playing in week 17, I think Haslam and company had something to do with that.

             
          • ABrown

            Matthew, you should take a full speed helmet hit to the head from Harrison before you talk about McCoy. You think he’s not tough? Really?

            Wallace came in for one play for McCoy.

            Then McCoy went back in with a major concussion and played the rest of the game. Shurmur was an idiot for letting him do it, but Shurmur would do ANYTHING to win or save his job, and the team played much better with McCoy than with Wallace in 2011.

            And then at the end of the year, Shurmur saw that he was going to be blamed for a terrible year of coaching. To save himself, he threw McCoy under the bus.

            That’s why we have Weeden — to save Shurmur — and that’s why Shurmur couldn’t let McCoy play and show what he could do in 2012. He was stuck with Weeden, and deserved what he got.

             
    • ABrown

      TigersBrowns2, you know football history better than that. The passing game is changing dramatically within even a single decade and a passer rating even as low as 79 was in the top 10 in the NFL in the 70′s.

      It’s very hard to compare numbers from 30 years ago to today.

      It’s true that Bradshaw, Elway, and Aikman struggles in their first years, playing for worse teams than the 2012 Browns. What is different is that they were pulled when they struggled, and only played in about half the games their first year.

      These examples you cite tell us that Weeden probably shouldn’t have started in 2012. Of if he did start, should have been pulled during the Philly game.

      Your evidence supports LG’s point.

       
      • tigersbrowns2

        bradshaw played in 13 of 14 games & aikman played in 11 of 14.

        6 td’s & 24 int’s is horribly bad , no matter what era you’re playing in.

         
        • LG

          TB2 SMH. How many time do I have to tell you. Brandon Weeden isn’t any of those guys? He don’t have the guts of those players….

           
          • Bob

            But he’s as old as those other guys. lol

             
          • ABrown

            . . . or the football IQ.

             
        • ABrown

          TigersBrowns2, when you look at Aikman and Bradshaw’s first years, it is very clear that they were not left in games to sink of swim.

          Bradshaw started 8 games and Hanratty started 6. Only Hanratty played a full game. When one struggled, the other came in. And I doubt the Stelers fans were unhappy since they were used to 2 and 12 and 1 and 13 before the QB tandem in 1970 won 5 and lost 9. Bradshaw started all the games in 1971 and led the league in game winning drives and 4th Q comebacks in 1971 and was 10th in the league in TD passes. The next year he won a playoff game.

          In his first year, he not only learned from being pulled but he also learned from coming in for another QB and doing well in the 4th Q.

          Aikman started 10 of 16 games in 1989, but was pulled early in 3 of those. He played 7 whole games out of 16. The 1989 Cowboys had almost no playmakers and there wasn’t much there to succeed with. His coaches didn’t leave Aikman in to get beaten up and overwhelmed. When he struggled, he was pulled.

          In his second year, he led the league, like Bradshaw in game winning drives and 4th q comebacks and won 7 and lost 8 after losing all his starts the first year. In 1991, he went to the Pro Bowl and had one of the top 5 passer ratings in the league. In 1992, he won the Super Bowl.

          None of these Hall of Fame QBs started all of their games as rookies. They were pulled when they struggled and they had to learn from their mistakes. But they all had really steep learning curves, and fans didn’t have much time to shake their head over regressions.

          Most coaches looking back say that QBs 20 to 40 years ago were not nearly as well prepared as QBs in the last 5 to 7 years. They are realizing that most spread QBs come into the league with lots of passing experience, and from the more sophisticated offenses, a lot of practice with reading defenses pre and post snap, calling audibles, seeing the whole field for open receivers, making quick decisions and quick releases of the ball. That’s something Tony Dungy was talking about in an article I read last night. He said QBs who come into the league from complex spread offenses are ready to play very well much earlier than in the past.

          Weeden didn’t play in a complex offense in college because his coach simplified it so he could handle it. That’s why he’s looking as bad as the QBs from 20 or 30 years ago, but there’s not much reason to expect he will have the steep learning curves like they did.

           
  15. tigersbrowns2

    LG … yeah , we know NOW about those above. what do you think broncos fans were saying after elway’s rookie season ??

    or what steelers fans were saying after bradshaw’s rookie season ?? same with aikman … look at their numbers … they are way way worse than weeden’s … not even close. if they were you , i know what they would’ve said.

    i will be back to remind you all if/when weeden ends-up being the starter again next season.

     
    • LG

      Weeden doesn’t have the back bone these guys have…

       
  16. ABrown

    There’s a lot of talk about McCoy’s arm strength, either that his arm can’t hold up for a whole season or he can’t throw more than 10 or 15 yards.

    He threw for over 3300 yards 4 years in college and set the NCAA all time single season completion percentage of over 76% and is 2nd on the career completion list by only .06 points — 70.33% to 70.39%.

    That’s a durable arm that stays on target.

    But the real question seems to be about Weeden and McCoy throwing long passes. Let’s look at the record at ESPN.

    In 2012 in 15 games, Weeden completed only 11 of 52 passes of 20 yards or more. That’s 21.1% completion rate to gain only 429 yards.

    In 2011 in 13 games, McCoy completed 15 of 35 attempts of 20 yards or more for 501 yards and a completion percentage of 42.9%

    Lots of people say long passes are Weeden’s strength, but it sure doesn’t look that way.

    Let’s say you are Norv Turner and you want to stretch the field. You have two QBs. One completes 21% of his long passes and the other completes 43%.

    Results are what counts and there’s no way Turner is going to count on a guy that only hits 21% of his long passes.

     
  17. ABrown

    The recent rating of the 65 quarterbacks who played in the league in 2012 (featured on Bleacher Report) in interesting in light of LG’s article. McCoy has been badly disrespected in Cleveland.

    In this national rating, Weeden ranks 45th and McCoy ranks 28th. The raters say that McCoy never had much of a chance in Cleveland. And all of you know that is true. The coaches in 2010 hardly talked to him until he was the only QB left and it was the Monday before the Pittsburgh game which was to be his first start.

    But McCoy played very well in 2010 against the most difficult schedule in Browns history. McCoy was one of the quarterbacks Dungy pointed out as examples of rookies who were able to play at a high level from the very beginning because they had taken on almost professional responsibilities in college — even without much help in their rookie year.

    Then in 2011, McCoy had a coach totally unqualified for his job, no opportunity to learn the play book until just before the season started, and a team with out much talent that got worse with each week’s new injuries, and the mistakes and mismanagement of Pat Shurmur.

    Unlike Elway, Bradshaw, and Aikman who were protected from being overwhelmed and guided by excellent coaches, McCoy was left in games to be so badly beaten up without line protection and even sent back into a game to play with a concussion.

    When you look at film of the plays McCoy made in 2011, his talent as a QB is almost surprising considering how he had been maligned and misrepresented after Shurmur decided to blame McCoy for the coaching failures in 2011.

    McCoy hasn’t had much help to develop, certainly nothing like the grooming for success that Weeden enjoyed.

    Yet McCoy comes out of this experience as the overall better football player. The raters note that he is smart and can make all the pre and post snap reads. Shurmur didn’t let him use that knowledge in 2011, but McCoy was reading defenses and audibling in 2010.

    The conclusion of the raters is that McCoy is “at worst” a very good backup quarterback. They say he is a very accurate intermediate range passer who makes good decisions. The only question they have is whether he can make the longer throws.

    But when the raters get to the top QBs in the league, Brady, Manning, Rodgers, and Brees, they talk about how all of them lacked strong arms and used excellent mechanics, decision making, and football IQ to rate very high now in the arm strength category.

    These raters say they are not talking about potential, only what they see now, so they don’t speculate about what a smart young player might be able to do, but they describe McCoy with a lot of respect and also understanding of how he has had a very hard time coming into the league and no one has done him any favors.

    Colt McCoy is one tough, smart, and talented football player that I would never bet against. Like Bradshaw, Elway, and Aikman, he also was a league leader in his 2nd year in game winning drives and 4th quarter come backs.

     
    • LG

      Great Post ABrown

       
      • ABrown

        Thanks, LG.

         
        • LG

          NE Time

           
  18. bobby

    Living in a Dream world! Colt is Horrible! !!

     
    • ABrown

      Bobby, in your dreams, it may be true, but not in anyone else’s reality.

       

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