You can say what you want to say about Colt McCoy, but one thing you can’t say is you heard his teammates bashing him the way that Trent Richardson did Weeden when he thought he was off the record. As a matter of fact the Browns weren’t even midway through the season in 2012 when a report surfaced with Josh Cribs saying the Browns would have a better chance to win if McCoy was playing quarterback. As the days go by and the Browns continue to sell Mr. Weeden to the non believers, it is becoming clear that the team made a mistake wasting their second pick in the 2012 draft on a guy that just doesn’t get it.

The fans in Cleveland have grown accustomed to losing football seasons. They have consistently seen a winner on the football field since the team returned to the NFL in 1999. They haven’t seen a starting quarterback that was able to step into the role of starter and lead the team on the field for 3 years in a row. Heck they haven’t seen a coaching staff that could last in Cleveland either. Now the Browns are under new ownership with a new coaching staff that is left to clean up the mess the last group has left on the field. There are still plenty of pieces to the puzzle that need to be put in place before the Browns can turn this team around and become winners.

The one thing that you can say is that Colt McCoy has always had the respect of his teammates.  Something that Brandon Weeden is going to have to work for. The 2013 season is going to be a difficult season for the Browns and Weeden, that’s if Weeden is given the chance to play. It was only a matter of time before others came forward and voiced their opinions about Weeden. Now that they are, some still can’t handle the truth.

If the Browns new staff were smart, they would make sure to keep Colt McCoy. You can spin this story any way you want. The truth is McCoy has always had the respect of his teammates.



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Readers Comments (60)

  1. tigersbrowns2

    mornin’ LG … i’d like your honest opinion on something …

    your articles on mccoy deal with conspiracy theories , how great he was in college , how he is respected etc. etc. … what is your opinion of his qb play in the NFL ?? don’t bring up coaching , talent or anything but his play on the field.

    i know you are all about winning , so i’m interested in hearing your objective response.

    • LG

      I think McCoy can win in the NFL. If you watched the games he played in 2011, he was able to lead the team right down the field. He could have done somethings better sure. But, he has the heart of a warrior. This kid would do what ever it took to put a win up. He was able to lead the team right down the field in 2012 also. He was the only Browns quarterback to get a touchdown in Denver. He had now problems leading the team down the field in preseason either. If you really look at the facts of the 2011 season the team should have had at least 7 wins, maybe 8. None of the loses were from pour play or turnovers on McCoy’s behalf. It was almost as though the browns were destined to lose. Bad long snaps and bad clock management too. I think if the guy would get a real chance with the team we have know he could win.

      • tigersbrowns2

        excellent post LG !! … except for the “should have ” part. excuses cannot be made for weeden , same should go for mccoy.

        i noticed that you did not list any weaknesses or shortcomings in his game.
        i listed 10 instances for ABROWN when mccoy did turn the ball over at critical times in losses.

        every qb does it … even mccoy.

        • Anonymous

          I’m researching an answer for you TB2. You’re going to have to shorten that list a bit.

          One thing that is clear from going over the play-by-plays when McCoy is the QB. There is a constant, driving goal toward the end zone on a McCoy led team.

          No matter what happens, no matter how many players drop out with injuries and how many players replace them you’ve never heard of and who aren’t playing in the NFL any more, no matter how many O-line penalties are called or how many times he’s sacked, no matter how little run support he has, no matter how many bad snaps on field goals or bad coaching decisions and bad play calls, and no matter if he throws an interception or he and lots of other players fumble the ball, he keeps driving for the score.

          • tigersbrowns2

            ummm ANONYMOUS …

            if you go back & read my post under LG’s article … “browns fans are sadly mistaken” i listed 10 games (losses) that mccoy either threw an interception or fumbled the ball either late in close games or critical situations.

            yes , weeden did it to.

            it was to show the mccoy backers that think he can do no wrong , he made many critical mistakes … thus his 6-15 record as a starter.

          • tigersbrowns2

            and another thing ANONYMOUS … you did NOT go back through all the play-by-play … ’cause if you did you would know what i’m talking about.

          • RB

            Bottom line, the Browns scored over 6 more points per game in 2012 versus 2011. Guess he can keep driving for the score all he wants.

          • LG

            No RB the bottom line is this. The team still sucked and lost 11 games…..How long should we have to live with losing?

          • ABrown

            RB, playing with a goal and purpose is a whole lot better than Weeden playing aimlessly, like he saw no connection from one play to the next.

            And there’s that “6 more points per game” talking point. I showed you a couple of days ago that the extra points didn’t come from Weeden because he didn’t score any more than McCoy did in 2 fewer games.

            The dramatic difference is in 3 times as many TDs by the running backs and a dramatic increase in TDs scored by the defense, which was much better at forcing turnovers in 2012 that 2011.

      • dan dyer

        First off let me just comment on McCoy’s heroic leadership qualities in 2012 when he lead his team to their only TD against Denver. His stats for that drive were very good…6 of 10 for 59yds and a TD, and 2 yds rushing. Not bad at all.
        Now lets talk some facts that McCoy lovers fail to mention:
        1. 4th Qtr of a 31-6 blowout
        2. Not positive but I’d bet the farm that Denver was in a prevent D.
        3. Picked up a 4th and 5 conv. that would have never been attempted under normal circumstances.
        4. On his other series he was 3 of 8 for 20yds and 4 sacks.
        Numbers were definately skewed due to the blowout.
        I also looked into his 2011 season in which you felt that it wasn’t his poor play that lead to the loses. That may be tru because if you really look at the games the 2 Cincy games and the St. Louis game were the only loses that weren’t blowouts. May not look that way but if you really look into these games, per the play by play, McCoy demonstrated his magic touch in the 4th Qtr of blowouts to “lead” his team to numerous meaningless TD’s.
        Cincy game 1: 4:22 remaining, Cleveland down 17-20. McCoy lead 3 series and was 4 of 12 for 22yds and an INT.
        Cincy game 2: 4th Qtr Cleveland up 20-17. McCoy lead 5 series and was 5 of 11 for 35 yds and an INT.
        St. Louis game: 4th Qtr Cleveland up 12-10. McCoy lead 2 series and was 2 of 2 for 16yds, sacked 2x, and fumbled in the redzone that Cribbs had to recovery. They did get a 22 yd FG attempt that the snap was botched, but that drive consisted of 8 runs(none by McCoy) and 2 passes…hardly him leading.
        One last point/question…how can you honestly state that in 2011 McCoy was able to lead the team right down the field? Where are any facts, stats, proof, etc.. of this ever being the case. I guess you are counting the 4th Qtr TD drives when we were down by 20-30 points.
        BTW…2011=289 yds a game
        193 pass yds a game
        13.6 pts a game
        2012=314 yds a game
        215 pass yds a game
        18.9 pts a game
        Consider that McCoy had already played in 8 games in 2010 compared to ZERO for Weeden. And McCoy was MUCH better suited for Shurmurs WCO. The only thing, and I mean only thing that McCoy has on Weeden is AGE.

        • ABrown

          Dan, you just lost the farm. No one plays a whole quarter in prevent defense, certainly not Denver. They ramped up the defense, blitzed on every play and played tight coverage on both short and long pass routes.

          And here’s another mistake. McCoy had 210.2 passing yards per game in 2011, not 193 yards, as you said.

          There are lots of inaccuracies in your accounts of the games in 2011.

          The first Bengals game was not good for the Browns. Their defense made the bonehead play of the year and lost the game, while the offense was playing Shurmur’s offense for the first time and Shurmur was in over his head as coach.

          But the Browns had pulled ahead of the Bengals at half time and extended their lead to 17 – 13 going into the 4th quarter, but Shurmur was getting conservative with his play-calling.

          At 4:31 in the 4th the Bengals had the ball again, but it looked like the Browns were handling them. And then it all changed.

          The Bengals lined up and quickly snapped the ball while the Browns were not paying attention. With no defense, the Bengals completed a pass to A.J. Green and he took it 41 yards for a TD and the lead 20 – 17.

          That was the critical error in the game and the Browns played like it had sucked the air out of the team, while the Bengal defense was energized.

          The Browns punted, the Bengals punted, then the Browns punted again. McCoy was 4 for 12 for 21 yards in those two series with a crucial dropped pass in each possession.

          With 2 minutes left, leading 20 to 17, the Bengals appeared to be heading for another 3 and out when Benson burst through the defense for a 39 yard TD and a 27 to 17 lead.

          The Browns got the ball back on their own 28, now trailing by 2 scores, with 1:46 left in the game. On 4th and 1 from the Cleveland 40, McCoy made an all or nothing pass attempt and was intercepted and the Bengals ran out the clock.

          In the 2nd Bengals game, we clearly won the 1st half and led 17 to 7, but the Bengals adjusted at half time and scored on their first 3 possessions, FG, TD, FG. We managed to only match them with one FG.

          We went into the 4th Q tied 20 to 20. And then the defenses stiffened. The Browns punted, the Bengals punted, the Browns punted, and the Bengals punted.

          Then the Browns put together a drive and got into field goal range (McCoy 2 for 3 for 18 yds, Hillis 4 for 8 yds, and a pass interference penalty). But there was a bad snap and the Field Goal the Browns had come to rely on failed. Instead of getting a 23 to 20 lead, the Browns still had a tie.

          What was worse was that the Bengals got the ball back near mid-field and got a 51 yard pass play from Green to put them in easy FG range when they couldn’t get the TD. They went ahead 23 to 20.

          The Bengals kicked off and the Browns got the ball on their own 26 with 30 seconds left. The Bengals went into prevent and allowed only short passes. Time ran out.

          The game turned on the missed field goal. The deep snapper took responsibility for the bad snap and was released early the next week.

          Since your main purpose in your post was to slam McCoy, your choice of the Bengals games was wise. McCoy had his worst completion % of 2011 against the Bengals — 47.5% and 47.1%.

          But what is odd is that McCoy had his highest completion rate against the same team in 2010 — 76%. Same QB, same team, different coaches.

          It looks like a coaching problem.

          McCoy played well in the Rams game, and but for a glitch in the kicking game, we would have won. McCoy was 20 of 27 passes for 218 yards, a 74.1% completion rate, a passer rating of 97.5, and 8.1 yards per pass attempt.

          The Browns led 12 to 10 at the beginning of the 4th Q. The teams traded punts, but with 7:47 left, the Rams made a FG for the lead 13 to 12.

          On the Browns next drive, they started on their own 40 and covered 56 yards to the Rams 4. McCoy was 2 for 2 for 15 yards plus a penalty to gain 30 yards.

          Shurmur called 6 run plays in a row to pick up the last 26 yards, but we couldn’t get into the end zone with the run. The coach probably felt very safe having run the clock down to 2:00 minutes and a can’t miss kicker.

          But another bad snap, and the impossible happened. We missed on a 22 yard field goal. The Rams kept the lead and ran out the clock.

          Dan, your recollection of the games is a little off and clearly slanted against McCoy.

          Here’s something to think about.

          In 2011 with a terrible coach and a terrible team, McCoy was tied for the 5th highest number of game-winning drives with Tom Brady, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco.

          • dan dyer

            ABrown-never said McCoy had 193 yds a game, just stated that that was the team total. Also I’m glad you just repeated everthing I stated in your breakdowns of the three games…the point being that McCoy did not lead very well in close games. LG’s article was about McCoy’s play not being the reason they lost games. Why don’t you go back and breakdown all of the blowouts and you will see that he has his fair share of the blame.
            Give the 2011 terrible team a rest as well. 2012 had the same terrible players that 2011 had with 4 offensive ROOKIES thrown into the picture. It’s not like they added quality veteran players, they improved in all statistics with unproven rookies…even the quarterback.

          • dan dyer

            ABrown: I also did some research on the career stats and averages for both and while neithers were anything to brag about, Weeden does have better numbers than McCoy.

            GAMES PLAYED:
            Colt=24(21 start)

            WIN/LOSS RECORD and WIN %:
            Colt=6-15 .285%
            Weeden=5-10 .333%
            Advantage Weeden although both SUCK

            COMPLETION %:
            Colt=409 of 702 for 58.3%
            Weeden=297 of 517 for 57.4%
            Advantage Colt but only slightly…both had tons of drops that would have lead to over 60% for both which is respectable.

            PASSING YARDS:
            Colt=4,388 for 182.2 yds a game
            Not counting his 3 non-starts it is 205
            Weeden=3,385 for 225.7 yds a game
            Advantage Weeden. 43.5(20.5) more yards a game is significant, but i’ll admit he threw more so his numbers should be higher.

            YDS an ATTEMPT:
            Slight advantage to Weeden, but basically a push.

            Colt=21TD and 20INT
            Weeden=14TD and 17INT
            Advantage Colt. I dont think Weeden will ever have a low INT total, he is a gunslinger who takes chances and that leads to picks..i did think his TD’s would be higher and that must improve. No reason an NFL QB should not have at least 20 TD’s given the amount of throws he had. McCoys rookie season he had 6 TD’s and 9INT’s in 8 games which would avg to 12TD’s and 18INT’s for a full season, very comparable to Weedens rookie year, slightly worse actually. He did improve to 14TD’s and 11INT’s in year two. I feel that Weeden’s numbers will also improve in his 2nd season.

            QB RATING:
            Advantage Colt again by a slim margin.

            Colt=93rushes for 363yds 3.9avg 1TD
            Weeden=27rushes for 111yds 4.1 0TD
            Advantage Neither. McCoy is mobile, Weeden is not therefore McCoy had more attempts and yds but Weeden did have a slightly better avg. I was surprised to see that McCoy only had 1 rushing TD.

            Colt=12fum 2fum lost
            Weeden=6fum 1fum lost
            Advantage Weeden. Only 9 more games played but 2x as many fumbles. QB has to protect the ball, INT’s are not the only turnovers, or negative plays that can halt drives.

            LONGEST PASS:
            Colt=56 yds
            Weeden=71 yds w/ TD
            Advantage Weeden

            LONGEST RUSH:
            Advantage the “fleet” footed Weeden.

            20+ YD PASSES:
            Advantage Weeden…9 less games and only 2 less completions.

            40+ YD PASSES:
            Advantage Weeden…see above comment.

            INT %:
            Colt=2.8% of his throws are picks
            Weeden=3.3% of his throws are picks
            Advantage Colt…I think both % are fairly decent. Colt’s rookie year his was 4.1%

            Thats a total of 7 advantages for Weeden and 4 for Colt. Each had one that could have been a push, and the rushing was considered a definate push.

            I really favored Weeden from the start, but now that I’ve looked into the numbers of both, I don’t even see a comparison…Weeden is better…stats don’t lie. Plus if you go by just the rookie numbers Weeden’s destroy McCoy’s. But I’m not the GM, HC, or owner…I don’t get to choose, just voice my opinion. I will say this though, no matter who wins this battle, they better rid themselves of the other and avoid the dreaded “we want McCoy/Weeden” talk once the starter has a bad game.

        • ABrown

          Dan, the article you are commenting on is about how none of McCoy’s teamates ever criticized him the way Richardson criticized Weeden.

          Clearly all the Weeden lovers agree because I haven’t heard a peek about any players criticizing McCoy.

          What we have instead is a whole bunch of you lining up to BASH MCCOY to fill the vacuum. I don’t hear a lot of admitting Weeden’s mistakes — bashing McCoy to defend Weeden.

          Now you all want the people who admire McCoy to bash him, too, just to prove we don’t think he’s perfect.

          What a total load of cow manure!

          • ABrown

            Dan, in response to your slanted comparison.

            (1) 2012 had one of the top 5 offensive lines in the NFL — a protected QB is an effective QB — huge advantage.

            (2) 2012 defense got 50% more turnovers than the 2011 defense and scored 2 defensive TDs compared to none for the 2011 defense.

            (3) 2012 running game scored 3 times as many TDs as the 2011 offense which could hardly score a rushing TD at all.
            2012 defense ranked 13th in points and 24th in yards.

            The 2011 rushing offense ranked 32nd in points and 28th in yards — only because of McCoy’s contribution. Without his rushing yards which often accounted for half of the rushing total in a game, the 2011 would have ranked 32nd in yard, too, and gained 100 yards less than the worst running game in the league.

            (4) Strength of Schedule (Pro Football Reference — Cleveland Franchise Encyclopedia.

            The 2011 Browns team faced the 19th most difficult schedule in the 64 year history of the Browns, while the 2012 team faced the 44th most difficult schedule — only a little tougher than the 2007 season when we won 10 games against very weak opponents.

            If you go back to the 2010 season, the team faced the 3rd most difficult schedule in Browns history. But 8 the teams McCoy faced together were by far the most difficult competition in Browns history.

            Now top that off with something I posted to correct some of your mistaken arguments a few days ago –

            Colt McCoy is the ONLY Browns QB in the last 14 years who has defeated teams with a collective WINNING RECORD during the 2010 season.

            It didn’t happen when we made the playoffs or when we won 10 games in a season. It certainly didn’t happen in 2012. It happened when McCoy was QB in his rookie season.

          • dan dyer

            ABrown-first off I see that I have posted this reply under the wrong bad, thats on me. McCoy has never had anything bad said about him, and that is how it should be. These are professional atheletes and men, if they have something to say they should act like men and say it to the man’s face.
            Second-how is my comparison slanted? They are true stats, with both passing and rushing included.
            Third-where do your offensive line stats come from? Are they based on sacks, QB pressures/hits, rushing yards? Because the rushing yards are just a few yards different and sacks, pressures, and hits can be skewed due to a QB holding the ball to long and/or scrambling. Weeden will not scamble, he will throw the ball away…sometimes to the wrong team. McCoy scrambles and strecthes plays which would add to these totals.
            Forth-the 2012 defense did score 2 TD’s compared to the 2011 defenses 0. But if you want to talk about defense then here is the truth
            Pts all=307
            Yards all=5318
            Pts all=368
            Yards all=5821
            So for whatever you were trying to prove, the 2012 defense gave up more pts, more yds, more yds per play, and had 9 more forced TO’s not 2x as many as you inccorrectly stated.
            Fifth-SOS 2011 team faced opponents with a 136-120 w/l record. 2012 team faced opponents with a 130-126 record. 6 game difference..not all that much tougher!
            And to finish I have a question, might just be me being stupid but you stated “Colt McCoy is the ONLY Browns QB in the last 14 years who has defeated teams with a collective WINNING RECORD during the 2010 season.” What do you mean by this? He did not have a winning record..he beat very good NE and NO teams, but he only posted a 2-6 record.

    • Bob

      You wrote, “your articles on McCoy deal with conspiracy theories”

      So let me get this straight. When LG reports what actual Browns players said and what actual Browns front office people say out in the press and what other reporters report (what came out of a player’s mouth) is all not reality, but assumptions or guesswork? So Richardson, Cribbs, an ex-Oklahoma St. coaching assistant, Banner, Haslam, Lombardi and any reporter or announcer who tell us something positive about Weeden and/or say anything negative about Weeden are all conspiracy theorists?

      Way to go after the messenger TB2. Classic!

      • Bob

        MEANT to say POSITIVE ABOUT McCoy.

        As in … o Richardson, Cribbs, an ex-Oklahoma St. coaching assistant, Banner, Haslam, Lombardi and any reporter or announcer who tell us something positive about McCOY and/or say anything negative about Weeden are all conspiracy theorists?

        • tigersbrowns2

          BOB … at least i have posted/admitted weeden’s shortcomings & poor play.

          you , LG & ABROWN cannot bring yourself to say one thing about mccoy’s shortcomings or weaknesses … not one … and don’t tell me you just starting posting in October … weren’t you a browns fan in 2010 & 2011 ?? if you were ,then you got to see plenty of mccoy & should have an opinion.

          i already know what to expect from all 3 of you … excuses , conspiracy theories , ifs & shoulda , coulda , wouldas.

          all 3 of you are entitled to your opinion & i will give that …

          • tigersbrowns2

            LG , ABROWN & BOB … i apologize to all 3 of you if i came across as too snippy in the post above.

            no disrespect … i just can’t believe you guys think mccoy can do/did no wrong.

            may the best qb win the job.

          • LG

            TB2 I never once posted he could do no wrong.

          • Bob

            Neither did I. I NEVER wrote McCoy did no wrong. I wrote, that I can’t judge McCoy’s negative points on the current season because he is not playing. I judge McCoy in comparison to Weeden. I have even praised Weeden a few times when deserved. I even gave some rope to Weeden in the last month thinking a change of system many cause him to get better (but no more after what Richardson and an ex-Okl. State coach said this week). I will judge McCoy good or bad when he starts playing again. In no way is he perfect just like any human being.

            You know what? If Weeden played well, this McCoy vs. Weeden thing would not even exist and McCoy would have already been traded back in August. I believe the reason McCoy was not traded in the end was due to Weeden’s terrible pre-season. Someone in the Browns organization made sure Colt stayed.

          • LG

            And to make matters worse for the non-believers I talked to a person in the know in Berea this afternoon. I wanted to try and get Colt on my show and the person who I talked to said he will do his bets and if I don’t get him before, make sure you call back in April cuz he will be there working out….So it doesn’t sound to me like they are trading him anytime soon…

          • ABrown

            It also sounds like McCoy is working out regularly — something I would have expected.

            I’d still like to know what Weeden’s work out schedule looks like in the off season.

          • Bob

            Thanks for sharing the info about McCoy with your contact LG. Hope he stays. But I guess we’ll see.

          • LG

            It sounded to me like he will be there….

      • tigersbrowns2

        hi BOB … the “conspiracy theory” reference is in regards to last year’s qb competition or lack thereof.

        are you , LG & ABROWN all related ??

        • RB

          A conspiracy theory was also hinted to when Colt McCoy didn’t start the last game of the season.

          • LG

            I still don’t think Colt’s shoulder was hurt enough to keep him from playing….

          • ABrown

            No conspiracy. Just a new owner wanting to protect a player he values from a bad coach.

            “Conspiracy theory” is another talking point that has gotten old and tedious in a hurry.

    • ABrown

      It seems odd, TigersBrowns2, that in response to an article about how no one on the teams McCoy led bashed him for hurting the team — and if you look back, you’ll see plenty of praise.

      But the first thing you Weeden lovers do to respond is to demand that people who respect McCoy list his faults, and then a number of your crew (below) jump right in and bash McCoy.

      It seems you all just can’t stand to see anything positive about McCoy. There is no end to the McCoy hatred by a few rabid fans. And now you want his admirers to join them.

      That is very strange indeed. And when I come to think about it, I can’t remember the Weeden supporters ever listing Weeden’s faults. I can just remember a rabid attack against anyone who mentions them and repeated and positive comparisons of Weeden to Peyton Manning, John Elway, Troy Aikman, and Terry Bradshaw.

  2. RICK

    LG, A lot of speculation and would of should of again. We don’t know about 2012 because he didn’t get the chance to show unless your baseing it on the one drive that he had that your so proud of.

    • Bob

      Conspiracy? Speculation?

      Title of this article is ”
      One Thing About Browns Quarterback Colt McCoy, You Never Heard His Teammates Bashing Him Like T-Rich Did Weeden.”

      There is NO “would of should have with this article.” Where is the “would have, should have” you claim with this article? Topic is no teammate of McCoy’s has ever came out and BASHED McCoy. That is a FACT!!!! If not, what teammate of McCoy’s bashed McCoy?

      Let’s keep to the topic.

      • ABrown

        Excellent point, Bob. The article clearly isn’t about what could have been, only what was, but the “would of, could of” is a knee jerk response of the Weeden supporters to any positive article about McCoy.

        And those people who like to criticize LG’s spelling should take a look at how to spell “could have”.

        • RICK

          The would of could “have” was in response to an LG comment not the article. Sorry it wasn,t spelled as you like.

  3. Bob

    Looks like Alex Smith is going to the Chiefs. Just heard it on ESPN. I say good. Looking forward to a true competition with the Brownies.

    Now for the Flynn trade talk. Or maybe let’s get Cassel or Sanchez. lol – yes, I am being sarcastic.

    • ABrown

      Bob, we don’t need to get any of those guys because we already have Weeden. Weeden, Sanchez, and Cassel all rank right together at the bottom of the list for Total Quarterback Ratings

      • Bob

        I agree.

  4. RB

    The consensus among the league is McCoy is not good enough to be a starting quarterback in the NFL.

    Chud pays Weeden a compliment and someone spins it to mean that he’s trying to build Weeden up so we can trade him. In the very next sentence he pays McCoy and compliment and you hear nothing but silence.

    At least those of us who feel Weeden to be the better option are realistic and know that Weeden is not perfect. We’re not spinning the truth with creative journalism.

    • Bob

      You write, “The consensus among the league is McCoy is not good enough to be a starting quarterback in the NFL. ”

      Definition of consensus – An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.

      REALLY? CONSENSUS? Please provide links and names for all these people (consensus) who believe that now in 2013 and even late 2012.

      FYI – The consensus of the Browns front office and coach in 2012 was that Weeden was “the second coming.” That my friend is an example of a consensus that was wrong.

      • dan dyer

        The “consensus” is everybody passed on him at least 3x during the draft, not one team has offered a trade for him, Mangini was livid about trading up to draft him and never wanted to play him, Shurmur and Co. saw him for 1 year and drafted his replacement immediately.

        • ABrown

          Dan, I think you are confused about some facts.

          • dan dyer

            ABrown-enlighten me, what facts am I confused about.

  5. Greg

    Now that the combine is over, who do think will be the best overall prospect as a pash rusher?

    • RB

      I still like D Moore from A&M.

      • LG

        I want that guy and we should do what it take to get him….

        • dan dyer

          I hate draft stocks being affected by combine numbers, but does it concern you that his bench press was so weak(12 reps) and his 40 time was so slow(4.9)? I like them to go with Milliner if he is there or trade back and pick up a 2nd round pick.

  6. Bob

    If Weeden is so great and has potential, then I guess we will definitely hear that Shurmur will bring Weeden to the Eagles or perhaps Holmgren will bring Weeden to Oakland since Oakland appears to want Holmgren.

    • tigersbrowns2

      … i think chud & turner want him too.

    • RB

      I don’t recall any of the Weeden supporters have claimed he was great. We have been pretty consistent in feeling he is the better choice of the two. We have also been consistent in stating that Weeden does have his weaknesses, as all QBs do.

      On the other hand, none of you have attempted to answer TB2 on his request of you to list Colt McCoy’s weaknesses.

      At the start of the season, LG has consistently hounded Weeden while at the same time placing McCoy on the coulda woulda shoulda pedistal.

      LG started early on Weeden’s completion percentage. Weeden ended up with a ever-so-slight edge in that category. Then LG argued it’s all about wins. Weeden ended up with one more win than McCoy had in 2011. Then we heard LG complain about lack of progression on Weeden’s part while failing to acknowledge Colt McCoy’s regression from 2010 to 2011. Then LG had to resort to College stats to argue Colt McCoy’s viability as a starting NFL QB when the one has nothing to do with the other. There’s always a stat to support your argument and there is always a stat to dispute your argument as well.

      You said the Browns didn’t give McCoy a fair shake. He had a season and a half to prove what he could do. That’s more than enough time to see that McCoy is a QB who does not have the armstrong needed to put the ball into tight spaces. He proved he could consistently throw behind receivers on slant patterns.

      • ABrown

        RB, that’s a phony red herring asking McCoy fans to list his flaws, so give it up.

        But every once in a while I think of one, like bad coaching. So here’s another one for you.

        His first pass in the Denver game was thrown way too hard, so hard Watson couldn’t hold onto it.

        It’s not unusual for a QB to be hyped up when he comes in in the middle of a game, but considering that Watson had been catching passes from Weeden all season, it was surprising that he couldn’t handle the zip on McCoy’s first pass.

        So McCoy made the mistake of throwing too hard for the receivers with his first pass in the Denver game. It looks like McCoy has a really strong arm.

        I’m having a hard time remembering when I heard Weeden supporters listing his faults. You guys usually react like today, VERY unhappy with Richardson’s criticism — even though you’ve been hearing it all year, even seen it in the scouting reports like the one LG posted a few months ago.

      • Bob

        What????? You wrote, “I don’t recall any of the Weeden supporters have claimed he was great.”

        I never wrote, Weeden supporters think Weeden is great.

        I wrote, “If Weeden is so great and has potential, then I guess we will definitely hear that Shurmur will bring Weeden to the Eagles or perhaps Holmgren will bring Weeden to Oakland since Oakland appears to want Holmgren.”

        I was REFERRING to Shurmur & Holmgren thinking Weeden is so great because of all the GREAT things they said about Weeeden in the media.

        Geez RB. You need to read what I wrote above your response or perhaps not respond under my comment to make your completely different point. Your response makes it look like I was attacking Weeden supporters here. BTW I am not taking your bait about me not saying anything about McCoy’s weaknesses. I have answered that numerous times already. So you are wrong that I did not before.

        Also, if you think I believe McCoy should be starting for the Browns next year, you are wrong. I have said all along since Chud was announced as coach that I think McCoy will be traded and I said a warmer weather team with a coach that matches his style of play would be better for McCoy. I have wrote numerous times that I could see a Kolb for McCoy trade. I hope McCoy stays , but I don’t think the fit is right for what we know about Chud’s past coaching.

      • ABrown

        RB, McCoy has a higher completion percentage than Weeden — 58.3% compared to Weeden’s 57.4% And remember the Weeden lovers argument that Shurmur was a terrible coach who made Weeden play worse and regress during the year.

        McCoy played really well in 2010. In an NFL program today about 2010 rookies, I heard Ben Rothlesberger say to McCoy after the last game in 2010:

        “Keep your head up, Colt. You’re doing an AWESOME JOB!”

        McCoy didn’t play as well for Shurmur either, but 2011 was a giant cluster f##k because Shurmur was so bad. The fans were close to lynching him. There’s an even better reason to understand why McCoy would have regressed in 2011.

        A big part of why there’s no reason to list McCoy’s faults is that you Weeden guys keep us busy correcting all the imaginary faults you make up for McCoy.

        • RICK

          ABrown, Why is it bad coaching for one QB and not the other. It is possible that Weeden as well as McCoy will benefit from the new coaching.

          • ABrown

            Rick, that was my point. You Weeden lovers have been saying Weeden didn’t do well with Shurmur as coach, but you want to keep on saying that McCoy “regressed”. Shurmur wasn’t good for either QB.

            But in that argument to try to benefit Weeden, it’s hard for a QB to do well in any offense if he doesn’t learn the play book by the end of the season.

            Coaching was a problem for McCoy in 2011. Coaching and poor work ethic were problems for Weeden in 2012.

        • dan dyer

          Actually his stats were far better in 2011 than in 2010. I don’t think we are making up imaginary faults of McCoy, we are just providing you with stats and facts. It may seem imaginary to you because of your unwillingness to admit the truth. But why don’t you go ahead and give me some examples of McCoy’s greatness(NFL not College). We as supporters of the “ginger-boy” Weeden do not think he is great…just better than McCoy and all the stats back that up.

          • ABrown

            Dan, in 2010, McCoy completed 60.8% of his passes, gained 7.1 yards per attempt and 11.7 yards per completion, a passer rating of 74.5, and a Total QBR rating of 45.

            Weeden completed 57.4% of his passes, gained 6.5 yards per attempt, 11.4 yards per completion, a passer rating of 72.6, and a Total QBR rating of 26.6, at the bottom of the league.

          • ABrown

            Dan, Weeden wasn’t better than anyone in 2012, except maybe Mark Sanchez. Weeden managed to rank at the bottom of the league in every QB rating, including deep passing. And was 30th in the NFL in converting on 3rd down, while McCoy ranked 10th with the teams he led.

            And McCoy ranked 13th in 2010 and 17th in 2011 in deep passing, while Weeden ranked 30th in 2012.

            And when you consider that Weeden held his team back by not learning the play book and not studying enough to be able to read defenses, so that the offense had to be simplified for him, and made more predictable — I don’t think anyone could argue that Weeden is better than any other QB in the NFL.

            And when all 65 QBs who played in 2012 were ranked at the end of the season, Lewis ranked 52nd, Weeden ranked 45th, and McCoy ranked 28th (but ranked 24th in the last year he started).

            It takes too much work gerry-rigging stats to make Weeden look like a good QB, and it takes too much work for a coach to make Weeden a good QB on the field.

            Let’s see how the QB competition plays out.

  7. RB

    *meant to say arm strength.

  8. ABrown

    Hi TigersBrowns2. That was my post by “anonymous”. I’m having trouble with my computer right now, need an upgrade with more memory and disk space, so nothing is working quite the way it should.

    And I HAVE been going through the play-by-plays and know very well what I’m talking about.


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