Brandon Weeden rated lower than COlt McCOyThe fans in Cleveland were promised a much improved Cleveland Browns football team in 2012 by former team President Mike Holmgren. Now that the season is half  over and the Cleveland Browns only have 2 wins, how is this an improvement? Sure the team can win more games in 2012 than they did in 2011, there is plenty of games left to do so. The Browns starting quarterback is 2 spots away from the bottom of the pile when it comes to Q.B. ratings in the NFL.

Brandon Weeden has a rating of 70.8, there are only 2 Q.B.’s with lower ratings than Weeden. Matt Castle is rated at 69.0 and John Skelton is rated at 64.5 just click here to see it for yourself… If Weeden didn’t connect on a few long passes he would be at the bottom of the list. The Browns have the greatest fans in the world. The fans will defend the team till the end of time. The fact is the numbers don’t lie, Weeden is rated at number 30 out of 32 NFL quarterbacks. The Browns haven’t won more games than last season and the fans are left holding their receipts for the high-priced game tickets once again as they watch another losing season from their Cleveland Browns.

I don’t know about the rest of you but when I am promised a better team than what we saw last year, I expect them to deliver. Colt McCoy who missed the last three games of 2011 had a higher rating than Brandon Weeden. McCoy was rated at 74.6 and was 27th in the NFL as far as the Q.B. Rating goes….I really don;t see how this is an improvement…. McCoy had just as many problems as Weeden with dropped passes and had even less protection from the Offensive line last year. Please, some one explain to me how this is a much better team in 2012….



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Readers Comments (113)

  1. greg

    throw out the 1st game & let us know where he stands then. he has been
    improving every week & has learned to throw the ball away & live another down.

    his biggest asset is being able to stretch the defense & get the ball down the field.

    wasn’t he leading all rookie QB’s in td passes & yardage coming into this week ?

    • LG

      We can’t throw it out it is part of history

  2. longhaul

    the team will never be any better as long as shurmur is the coach. people can say what they want but the facts are right in front of them. there is enough talent on this team to have won at least 4 games by now,but when you have no clue as to how to use your talent it falls on the coach. get this guy out of cleveland.

    • LG

      Longhaul you’re correct these blind people can’t see it

  3. muttklingon

    That is Coach Pat Shurmur . is bad badcoach.! not weeden!

  4. marty

    Did you ever hear the expression “Give a monkey a typewriter,sooner or later they spell a word. ” Well let’s rephrase that “Give a strong arm quarterback a great offensive line, sooner or later they will complete a long pass.” THIS IS FACT by any standard of measurement. You can put a poor QB behind a great offensive line and he will find the time to complete a pass. Put Manning,Brady,or any other great QB behind a 1.9 sec. offensive line and you will get a struggling team. Fans say because a qb has a weak arm cannot throw long.Well would it better if the ball was thrown 60 yards and receivers could run 18 yards max in 1.9 sec. Colt’s Arm was at full strength this year.

    • ABrown

      Great post, Marty!

  5. Sam

    LG I love your passion as a fan, but you seem to be the only Browns fan that is still down on Weeden in favor of McCoy. Passer rating is a terrible category to judge Weeden by at this point in time because it is dragged down by his 5.1 rating against the Eagles. Now I know you can’t totally dismiss that terrible performance, but no quarterback should be judged by his first game alone and Weeden has made vast improvements since then. In fact, if you disregard the Eagles game and the Chargers game (where no quarterback would have succeeded in passer rating in the pouring rain) Weeden’s rating is 90.6, putting him ahead of QBs like Eli Manning, Joe Flacco, Jay Cutler, Matthew Stafford, etc. Let’s also not forget that three of McCoy’s four wins last year were against the three worst teams in the league and his fourth was a miraculous 6-3 win against the Seahawks where he played pathetic. Weeden has already beat a playoff team from last week and a team that was expected to make the playoffs this year.

    • Bob

      And Colt beat the Saints in his 2nd NFL game ever played and beat the Patriots in his 3rd NFL game ever played. Both games under a different coach though. He also played a strong Steelers team (who ended up going to the Super Bowl that year) in his 1st ever played game, not a team (Eagles) who practically handed the the game to the Browns. And Colt had more wins last year by today’s date BTW.

      See how the spinning can go.

    • michael jordan

      where in the heck do you have Weeden at 90% pass rating ? he is at a mere70.8 passing rating.

  6. MileHighDawg

    I suppose you question that the Broncos dumped Tebow for some guy named Manning. Stats don’t always tell the story. Weeden will become the 2nd best QB in Browns history behind some guy named Graham when it’s all said and done.

    • LG

      Somehow I want some of what you’re smoking

  7. tongue_it

    oh where is Colt McCoy’s rating? Oh yeah thats right the Browns head coach hasn’t played him yet in a game to get a rating!

    • LG

      I used last years rating for McCoy it’s higher than weeden’s And in the preseason mcocoy blew weeden away

    • longhaul

      the only reason shurmur has not played mccoy is that he knows mccoy wld find a way to win a game. that would make shurmur look more of a FOOL then he already is. im not sayin weeden will never make it but stop and think about it. if your not winning you try something different. has that happened? the answer is no. he goes into a game the same way every week flyin by the seat of his pants.there should have been 4 wins already this season

      • LG

        You’re absolutely correct agian longhaul shurmur is a horses ass that continues to make poor choices that have cost the browns wins..

  8. Denny Dice


    All ill say will see where what is by week 17

    Stay on the McCoy wagon all you want. Hell McCoy could he traded after Thursday. You have to be blind and a real hater not to realize Weeden the Future. But maybe your two other buddies who comment here can back you up on this.

    I laugh at you cause your still bringing up Dolt McCoy and your still hating even after a Win.

    Improved??? The coach isn’t improved that the problem. It’s not the players or the QB.

    Your one blind Browns fan… See ya on the Weeden wagon. Either you get on or root for McCoy new team.


    • LG

      Denny did u click the link in the article I don’t make up the numbers

  9. Bobby D

    Nope you don’t make up numbers.

    Let’s see what was Payton mannings qb rating at this point in his career? Worse than Weedens.

    So your dumbass would have been calling for manning to go.

    Why hasn’t anyone offered anything, anything for colt? Um because everyone is better than McCoy. He would be 17 of 25 for 60 yards, can’t win like that. That’s what last year showed. It’s history you can’t dismiss that.

    • LG

      You’re wrong Bobby d the browns didn’t get rid of McCoy because after the front office the so called brain trust of the browns got a good look at weeden they didn’t even trust him and it was them that didn’t get rid of McCoy . After the preseason when McCoy smoked weeden could you blame them for keeping colt McCoy Bobby d?

    • LG

      By the way Bobby d weeden isn’t no Peyton manning. Manning is a leader…

  10. Bob

    If you throw out the Eagles game, take away all the 3rd and 4th quarters this year, take out the Giants game, take away all the balls Weeden overthrew, take away the Ravens game, take away all the interceptions Weeden threw, take away the first Bengal game, take away all the sacks, take away the Bills Game, throw out all the official stats, take away the Colts game, take away all the balls Weeden under threw, take away any bad weather, missed sacks, fumbles, missed tackles, and bad plays you have …………….. Weeden as the #1 QB in the league? LOL!

    • ABrown

      Bob, Great point!! If Weeden never played at all, he’d be a candidate for the Hall of Fame, sort of like a student I had who was doing almost no work.

      When she got an F, shed argued that she hadn’t done anything to deserve an F. And I agreed. For some levels of work, an F is a gift.

      • Bob


  11. Bob

    Seriously though. After reading this article, not so sure they will trade McCoy before Thursday with Weeden’s stats. But we’ll see. If Weeden does not improve his stats by the end of November to at least 20th in the ranking, I wonder if they bring in McCoy for a couple of games to see what he has or does not have for the organization or a trade going in to 2013. Who knows.

    But, we all know and can agree that someone needs to … FIRE THE HEAD COACH!

    Go Browns

    • Bob

      Meant to say 25th rank, but I’ll even say 28th rank.

  12. RB

    Based on your argument, Andrew Luck at QB for the Browns would not have been an improvement either because Colt McCoys rating and 27 ranking from last year are better than Lucks are this year.

    Colt McCoy would not have started on any other team last year nor would he have started on any other team this year.

    Colt McCoy was in his 2nd season last year. This is Weeden’s rookie season. That’s not a fair comparison.

    Long term, Weeden has more upside than McCoy, and the best way for him to learn is by playing. At the beginning of the season the Browns were expected to win 0 games. They are ahead of expectations. We weren’t going to win anything, so you play the rookie.

    • LG

      RB, Where did you get the idea the Browns weren’t expected to win anything? If you would have listened to the Brain Trust of the Browns they were suppose to be a much improved team this year. Don’t you recall Holmgren telling us at the end of the 2011 season how much better he expected the team to be in 2012? I sure remember him saying that…If he would have come out and said he didn’t expect the Browns to win any games in 2012 I wouldn’t be so disappointed……

      • MP

        LG, I really wish you would quit your negative comments already! We all know you like Colt and not Weeden. We all know you want everybody fired that has any authority with the team. Look, we need to let the rookies play and develop this year. Holmgren is gone, and his strange comments go with him. I think Shurmur is out right after the season, and his terrible play calling with him. But Heckert has done a good job and the team is building a solid future. With a good coach next year and more top draft choices we will have a contending team. So start talking about some positives already and just enjoy the teams growth this year. I have been a Browns fan for over 50 years and think they are on the right track!!!

        • LG

          MP, I have been right there with you for 50 years. I like Heckert too, I don’t think he stays he has already hinted at leaving….

  13. JC

    LG…. You like number,well lets play a game

    What current QB posted theses number his first year & thought of him now

    1,043 yds 3.0 TD 11 interception 55.4 rating

    • LG

      Did his name Start with Eli?

      • ABrown

        6 TDs and 9 iNTs for Eli, not 3 and 11

  14. marty

    You have to wonder why didn’t Colt return to playing status after the concussion from week, two weeks, five weeks.No words from McCoy. His dad opened a can of worms after the Pittsburgh game.DO you realize from that one play in the Pittsburgh game the impact on the NFL.Could the NFL commissioner discussions with the management team be a good one. The results that came out of the meetings. You don’t think there could of been any anger or reprecussions from that! WAKE-UP

    • ABrown

      Yes, Marty. That concussion is something we should never lose sight of. Cleveland management was reemed by the NFL.

      But one other thing. McCoy played for almost a quarter WITH A CONCUSSION. When people say we shouldn’t count Weeden’s first game because he was awful. Maybe he wasn’t ready to play in the NFL, but he played and that’s part of his record.

      McCoy’s play with a concussion is part of his stas for 2011. Playing broke all the rules and we could argue justifiably that we shouldn’t count those plays, but it’s part of the record.

      HOWEVER, without those plays, McCoy’s season Y/A goes up to 6.0. His INTs drop from 11 to 10. His completion percentage goes up to 59% and his rating goes up to 77. But he played those snaps and they count.

      I don’t want to hear any more cry baby complaints, “If we didn’t count the first game. . .”

      • Bob

        Absolutely. ABrown & Marty.

        IMO, The whole concussion issue hurt egos and they were going to punish Colt at the expense of the team. I bet Colt gets to a championship game before that knucklehead Shurmur. Karma coming to you Shurmur in more ways then one.

        FIRE THE COACH!!!

  15. Ron

    The new owner will settle the issue regarding Weeden,the future management changes, personnel changes, etc. He sees the same things the fans see. I believe he will be very heavily involved in the details and operations until he sees the kind of improvement with a timeline everyone is hoping for. Why? The Cleveland football fans have great heart. Obviously, logical only fans would have left the stadium years ago. The new owner seems to have the heart to change direction but, more importantly, he will make logical decisions to protect his significant investment. A lot of statistics can be thrown around but what really matters is the end result.

  16. Jeremy

    Come on man! Seriously, calling Weeden a failure??? Who is number 4 in the league in pass attempts?? Check the stats, its a rookie named.. guess who! Weeden!! The only QBs to throw more often are named Stafford, Brees, and Brady. You expect him to be able to save this growing team by himself? Weeden’s rating (for whatever thats worth) will improve, and then you can write down the number and put it under your pillow and hope that the win fairy visits you in the middle of the night..
    McCoy didn’t beat the Saints.. his team did. His stats were: 9-16 for 74 yrds no tds and -5 yrds rushing on 5 attempts. his rating was 68. Get a clue man, McCoy couldnt hold a candle to Weeden’s arm or potential..
    And NUMOROUS pundits from to picked the Browns to go 0-16 or close to it…
    Deal with reality… And grow up, and let Weeden develop… He is F’n good!

    • LG

      Jeremy, where is it that I called Weeden a failure? And being number 4 in the league in pass attempts? What good is that if you don’t win?

      • ABrown

        And what good is a high number of pass ATTEMPTS, if you don’t have an equally high number of pass COMPLETIONS. McCoy was a leader in completions per game, for example. That’s a good category to lead in.

        • Bob

          Perfect example of winning with fewer pass attempts is Alex Smith against the Cardinals. That game was played smart by Smith, the whole team and the SF coaches.

          Completions, a good rushing attack, protecting & being smart with the ball, an alert healthy defense and a coach that knows what he is doing is what wins games. I also believe a mobile QB is like the cherry on top.

    • Jeremy

      You misunderstand the reference to pass attmepts… ITS NOT A GOOD THING TO HAVE A ROOKIE THROW THAT MANY TIMES A GAME!! His numbers suffer from the trial by fire..
      SOme other fun facts in the Battle of McCoy’s greatness vs. Weeden’s ineptitude.. The McCoy led Browns of 2010 scored 21 total touchdowns, and averaged around 13.625 points per game..
      Weeden’s led Browns have 17 touchdowns halfway thru the season and are averageing 19.25 per game.. Which would you prefer? Extropolate the amount of wins Weeden has so far this year, and he ends up with 4 like McCoy did in his second year (2011) BUT the product on the field is by far more fun to watch in every respect, than last years. And the wins will come when you play better football, which Weeden does.

      • marty

        Jeremy, your’re so smart.Give me a HONEST answer.Weedon got so many touchdowns this year with be babied with 4.5 sec. cycle to look the field over,plant both feet, and throw the ball. now what if he wasn’t babied and had only 1.9 sec and had to throw while running. How many yards and touchdowns would he of made..Now keep in mind check the timing he needs to throw the ball. Weedon throws after 3.0 sec. With most throws closer to 3.8.Go ahead Jeremy, tell us he has a switch on his ass to put him high speed. That would seem logical. most of his throws are from a standing upward, both feet planted stance.Please Editor have an article on the importence of pass protection and what happens when it breaks down.

        • Sam

          I love how you think adding a second round rookie RT totally improves the offensive line. Weeden does not have more time to throw because the O-line is vastly improved. He has more time because he can stretch the field with his arm. I’ll never forget a quote from an analyst last year about Colt McCoy’s offense: “Beating the Browns is easy, just bring everyone in the box. Colt McCoy can barely throw the ball fifteen yards.” That made me feel pathetic as a fan. McCoy was constantly under pressure because teams could blitz linebackers and DBs without worrying about getting beat deep.

          • ABrown

            Maybe you heard a commentator from outer space. I watched every game and never heard that comment.

            Watch the line closely. They are holding their blocks much longer. That new RT is repolacing a tackle last year who was trying to play on one leg — amazing how that messes up the blocking.

            I think the biggest problem last year is still the problem this year — predictable and extremely conservative play-calling. We’re completing about the same number of over 15 yard passes this year as last — check the game logs and expanded box score at Pro Football Reference.

            Of course Weeden is not as accurate as McCoy so he is throwing more to get those completions.

            What I don’t understand is how McCoy was able to complete ANY longer passes, let alone as many as Weeden, when he rarely had more than 2 seconds to get off a pass, but somehow he did. Just deserves a lot more credit than he’s getting for what he was able to do.

      • ABrown

        Jeremy, I didn’t bother to check this when I read it before. But when I checked the 8 games McCoy started in in 2010, I found that the team scored 15 touchdowns — a little less than the 17 this year’s team scored, but not much less.

        In the average points per game, we have a TIE of 19 points per game. Both McCoy and Weeden’s teams in their first 8 games averaged 19 points per game.

        Looks pretty even overall.

        • LG

          Lets not forget McCoy a higher Q.B. rating and his average yards per catch is only a 1/2 yard less than the strong arm Shurmur started over him…

    • ABrown

      And Weeden didn’t beat the Bengals or the Chargers, the defense did, the running game did.

      What was hidden in those wins was Weeden’s problem sustainging a drive, even going more than 3-and-out when the game is on the line.

  17. RICK

    RB is right all the supposively experts said we would’t win a game and at the start of the season we weren’t favored to win a single game by the odds makers. Holmgren was right we do have an improved team over last year but unfortunately we have Shurmur ball in Cleveland.I see your still living in the past to bring up last years stats and try to compare QB ratings. You haven’t a clue on what Colt would do this year except speculation (unless you dusted that damn crystal ball off again)should of, could of, would of,sorry but your savior didn’t cut the mustard last year and it was time for a change.Once again we could’t beat a single team in our division last year.I haven’t checked the stat out yet but what is Colt’s record since he’s been on the team against our division? Not good.I see Weeden improving each week which is more than I seen from Colt. What’s the matter can’t you get him on your show and it irks you? Oh thats right it was the twitter thing you had going earlier in the season.

  18. Tom Wynne

    are you kidding? Comparing Weeden’s arm to McCoy’s arm…is like comparing a cannon to a BB gun. Weeden looks like an NFL QB…McCoy looks fine holding a clipboard. Sure, Weeden had an awful game 1…but if you can’t see the progression, I think you might not be watching the games(or should have your eyes examined)…20+dropped catchable balls hasn’t helped his QB ratings either.

    • greg denis

      excellent post by Tom Wynne (above) …

      hi LG – do really think the browns planned on winning with 5 rookies starting on offense ??

      with mccoy we got dink-and-dunk against 8-10 men in the box … with weeden we got a guy who can get the ball down the field & stretch the defense.

      way too early to judge weeden … let’s talk again at the end of the season.

      have a good one.

      • LG

        Greg, yes I heard Holmgren say a number of times they were going to win more games this season….We still have dink and dunk for the most part. Weeden’s average pass is 6.4 yards…Good thing he hit a few long balls otherwise it wouldn’t be that high would it Greg?

  19. ABrown

    A lot of people are not really satisfied with the passer rating system we’re talking about here. It was developed in the 70’s. It takes attempts, completions, yards, touchdowns, and interceptions, and gives that combination a number between 0 and 158.9 I believe.

    It’s possible to inflate the rating by completing a number of short passes, or even completing passes for no gain. It doesn’t note a difference between defended passes and dropped passes or passes thrown away to prevent a sack.

    It doesn’t included anything at all about touchdowns a quarterback runs for.

    That’s why a lot of people have been trying to come up with a better system that takes all these issues and more into consideration.

    ESPN has organized that effort and with folks looking at over 60,000 NFL plays over the last few years, ESPN has come up with what they call the TOTAL QUARTERBACK RATING.

    Here are some articles that describe it:

    (1) Oliver: Guide to the Total Quarterback Rating

    Dean Oliver explains the methodology behind ESPN’s new QB metric, the Total Quarterback Rating.

    (2) Luck vs. Griffin, a Statistical Comparison

    Which rookie quarterback is better? Fortunately, there’s a way to fill in the rather large gap between perception and production.

    (3) Keating: QBR can redefine the position

    Peter Keating explains how Total Quarterback Rating (QBR), ESPN’s new metric for quarterbacks, can shift the way we see the game by finally measuring the performance of football’s most important position more accurately.

  20. KC

    The only true solution to the QB issue is to trade McCoy. This will surely end this controversy. Hopefully McCoy will get to be a starting QB somewhere else besides Cleveland. Brown fans who are against Weeden give it up because Weeden is your QB. There will be no change in that position until Shurmur is gone and that probably will still keep Weeden your QB, so get over it. Weeden is here to stay.

    • LG

      KC lets say the Browns do trade Colt, Who is going to be the Backup if Weeden goes down?

  21. ABrown

    With the ESPN Total QB Rating, objections you all have mentioned about Weedens’ passer rating are considered. This is a more comprehensive and more accurated description of Quarterback play.

    But the difference in quality of play between quarterbacks is highlighted.

  22. RICK

    If they trade Colt the third stringer is probably just as good if your comparing pre season stats so it probably wouldn’t hurt that much. Sorry but the best quarterback rating doesn’t win each week so it really doesn’t mean much. KC is correct looks like Weeden is here to stay

    • LG

      Rick, last I heard they got rid of Lewis when they needed the Roster spot…Have they brought him back yet?

  23. Joel

    I’m glad to see the negative reponses to LG’s articles. He writes like a child and argues like a toddler. I mean are the authors on this site supposed to swear at the commenters in the comment section?

    Dear Cleveland Sports 360, we want someone to post columns that have a reading/writing level above elementary school.

    Another reader who is sick of LG’s lazy work

    • LG

      Hey Joel, you want to write and show us how it is done? Here is your chance…And another thing Joel, I am the furthest thing from lazy you’ll ever see…

    • ABrown

      Joel, you are clueless. LG is trying to give you an alternative to front office and Plain Dealer brain washing

      • LG

        You are sure Right ABrown.. The entire media in Cleveland is brain washed too…

    • longhaul

      joel… keep playin your ebox you are much better at it than you are at leaving comments. as far as i am concerend weedin has not really proved anything yet. sure he has a strong arm but it takes more than that to be a winning qb.

    • Bob

      Oh no. Joel spelled “responses” wrong. He spelled “reponses”. Call the grammar, spelling & punctuation police staff. I can’t believe it. What is reponses? lol

      Joel also writes:
      “I mean are the authors on this site supposed to swear at the commenters in the comment section?”

      Where does LG swear? What I read is name calling and insults by Weeden supporters who get bent out of shape when reality is pointed out to them with facts and true stats about their beloved Weeden. I also read responses with made up stats and fallacies by Weeden supporters. What is up with Weeden supporters throwing out games to booster Weeden’s ratings?

      Lastly, to everyone on the grammar, spelling & punctuation police staff, please check your own posts for grammar, punctuation and spelling before you post.

  24. ABrown

    The Total Quarterback Rating ranges from 0 to 100. The best individual games are in the 90’s. The best season ratings are usually between 65 and 75, although Peyton Manning is at 83 right now.

    Each season, the ratings produce a list of the Top 10 Games Performances for the year. Most of these scores come from the top guarterbacks in the NFL.

    But in the 5 years the ratings have been kept, 2 rookie quarterbacks have had one of the top ten games of the season during their rookie year (top 1 percent).

    ***Those 2 rookies are MATT RYAN and COLT MCCOY.***

    I’ll say it again, out of 23 rookies since 2008 only McCoy and Ryan were in the top 1% or the league for game performance.

    This season, 2 other rookies have a chance to join their ELITE company — Griffin and Luck. Wilson has 2 game score in the low 90s but that’s not enough for the top 10.

    Weeden’s top game was a 60. His season score is 19.5, 33rd out of 34rd QBs.

    Mcoy’s top game was 96.4. His season score was 45. 22nd out of 32 QBs.

    There are sub-categories of performance, too.

    Under “Clutch-weighted expected points added through completions and incompletions” Weeden scores 20.8. McCoy scored 30.4 and 53.9.

    In “Number of points contributed by a quarterback over the season, accounting for QBR and how much he plays, above the level of an average quarterback.” Weeden scores a negative number -37.8. (34th out of 34) McCoy scored -4.3 and -18.3. (21st and 27th)

    Weeden’s ratings this year look just like Blaine Gabbert’s last year and are no where as good as Colt McCoy’s.

    The Browns’ fans have been the targets of a PR campaign to downplay McCoy and promote Weeden.

    All last summer, the coaching staff worked with Weeden to INCREASE his arm strength. Every week the Browns PR staff and coaches give the broadcasters talking points, mostly about what a strong arm Weeden has.

    How often have you heard broadcaster talk about any other QB’s arm strength?? Romo’s arm? Cutler’s arm? Rodger’s arm? They are better than Weeden, but no one has to talk about it.

    Wake up, folks!!

  25. RICK

    New year, new players, New coordinator, No comparison just talk from the past. Like I said before how many wins did we have against our division last year none thats the stat that counts. The best QB rating doesn’t win each week. It’s a team effort and there is alot more to it than some stats somebody came up with. (because they couldn’t figure out how to rate the QB accurately)I guess we will have to wait for the last 8 games to see what happens then we can compare last season to this one and not what we did for half a season which doesn’t mean squat.

    • LG

      You’re right Rick the best rating doesn’t win them all. Peyton Manning is 4-3 which is far better than Mr. Weeden right now….

  26. rts

    Weeden’s 1,912 passing yards are the third-most by an NFL rookie through the first eight games of a season in league history

    Weeden already has two 300-yard passing performances and a near miss in a third. Only Peyton Manning (four in 1998), Cam Newton (three in 2011) and Andrew Luck (three in 2012) are the only rookies in NFL history to throw for 300-yards three or more times in a single-season.

    9 touchdowns 6 INTs since the Philadelphia game

    Your whining about Colt starting is so irrelevant now, why are you still writing about it? I think you and the majority of female Browns fans are the only people who want to see McCoy on the field. All realistic Browns fans know Weeden is the superior QB.

    • LG

      RTS, we aren’t the fake fans here. We are the fans that really just want to see wins…

  27. RICK

    LG,He better be thats why he is one of the primier quarterbacks in the league and getting the big bucks.Weeden has 27 pass completions of 20 or more yrds (how many last year?) and has 1,912 passing yrds which is third most by a NFL rookie through the first eight games of a season in league history so those are some stats (for the stat happy people) from the current season and not the past.The problem is the coaching and it matters more than the players. The Saints have all the talent in the world but you lose a good coach and you see what you got. There are 10 coaches on the hot seat this year so I suppose they all suck or maybe they aren’t getting the most out of their talent who knows. That’s why the past doesn’t mean anything some of these coaches have been in the playoffs before.Big deal every season is different so who cares about the past it’s the future that matters and it looks better with a new owner and soon hopefully a new coach. GO BROWNS

    • ABrown

      Rick, you said that Weeden has completed 27 passes for 20 or more yards. That’s 27 passes, you said.

      No way, even in your dreams! Not even HALF that many. Weeden has completed 11 passes of 20 yards or better so far this season.

      In the first 8 games of his rookie season, McCoy completed 14, yes 14 passes of 20 yards or more.

      In the first 8 games of 2011, McCoy completed 8 passes of 20 or more yards.

      So BOTH quarterbacks are averaging 11 passes of 20 yards or more in the first 8 games of their seasons. The only difference is that Weeden isn’t as accurate.

      I know you guys love the way Weeden looks in his uniform, but when you go to something measurable, Weeden doesn’t measure up.

  28. RICK

    LG, Sorry when you get the wins you’re not satisfied so don’t give us that crap about just wanting to win it seems more about who is playing and if they are your favorite players.If Haslem is the hands on guy you talk about I believe he would make the change at QB if he felt that is what we need. I don’t think he cares what you think about the QB situation he has his own agenda.

    • LG

      Rick I want a team that can win without us holding our breath until the last seconds of the game to see if we are going to win…The Browns almost blew it last Sunday and if the Chargers didn’t drop the ball in the end-zone the Browns would have lost…Weeden couldn’t even throw a touchdown pass….

      • Sam

        The teams Colt McCoy beat last year were a combined 20-44. The best team McCoy beat was the 7-9 Seahawks, who he beat 6-3. McCoy’s numbers were a brilliant 20-35 for 178 yards and an interception. Colt McCoy is a TERRIBLE quarterback. Brandon Weeden is on pace to break every rookie passing record in franchise history. LG you say you want wins, but you continue to call for a proven loser at quarterback. The Browns offense has scored 27 points this year and LOST. That’s not the quarterback’s fault. If you manufacture 27 points you expect to win. Last year the Browns only scored 20 or more points twice. They have already scored 20 points three times this year in 8 games.

        • LG

          Sam, Weeden didn’t get the team into the end-zone in all those scores you guys all make him out to be a great savior. So what if he breaks every rookie record. What good is that if we finish 2-14? We shouldn’t finish 2-14 the Browns had better beat the Kansas City Chiefs….So what do we say if that happens, we have the best Losing Quarterback in the History of Rookie records……

  29. RICK

    Once again ABrown how many wins did we have in your stat book for McCoy last year in our division?(the stat that means something)Throw all the stats that you want to out there and it doesn’t matter. I guess Haslam has decided to stay with the rookie or he would make a change. I guess the second half of the season will tell if we are heading the right diection.Sorry your not satisfied with the way the season has went so far but that’s part of the growing process. All the stats in the world can’t change that.The Browns need to beat the teams in their div.and Colt couldn’t get it done that’s the only stat that matters to me.

    • LG

      Rick McCoy was actually a better Q.B. under magini. Too bad Weeden didn’t work under him he would have done much better than he is doing now under Shurmur…

    • ABrown

      Rick, you’ve got that crystal ball and a few fantasy stats going for you. Now you want to change the measure again. Wins in the division?

      How about wins against teams that have recently won the Super Bowl?

      Or even better let’s put Weeden with the 2011 team that you say had much less talent and definitely had a weaker offensive line (one-legged tackles will do that for you), and see how many games Weeden can win with THAT team.

      I’d like to see how many games McCoy could win with this year’s team.

      It’s pretty clear Weeden is scared spitless of that. When he hurt his foot against Cincinnati, Weeden saw McCoy warming up and nearly tripped over himself again rushing back out onto the field.

      Bottom line, McCoy is a clutch player — Weeden is not.

  30. tigerbrowns2

    (greg denis) posting under my fox sports moniker.

    lots of posts on qb rating … while a good passer rating may attribute to success it doesn’t always amount to wins. wins & superbowl rings are what most good/great qb’s are remembered for.

    mccoy 2010 2-6 as starter
    2011 4-9 as starter
    .286 winning percentage

    don’t get me wrong , i have always liked mccoy’s moxy & grit … i just think the browns have a better chance to win with weeden at qb.

    • LG

      We just haven’t seen it yet because of our head coach holds the entire team back….

  31. tigersbrowns2

    ok LG … you appear to have an argument for every point. you are allowed your opinion. you argue above that the defense got their 2 wins … well, the defense also failed in games we could’ve got wins. a dropped td pass by gordon against the colts would’ve got another victory provided the defense would’ve held at the end of the game. it goes both ways.

    again , i say let’s judge him at the end of the season. write another article on him at the end of the season & I’ll be the first one to eat crow if weededn doesn’t succeed.

    • LG

      You are right. Also my argument is the Browns should have a team that can win a game without question. What I mean by that is they don’t need a last minute heroic act to win. You know like they win by a couple of scores not looking to score last to win. Put the opponent away…We don’t have a team that can do that…

  32. KC

    LG: I love McCoy and believe he would have been a better QB this year. I do believe in McCoy that is why I wish they would trade him and give him a chance to show all you Brown fans what you don’t believe. However, Weeden is and will be the Brown’s QB period, nothing he does or doesn’t do will change this. So we all need to stop hoping for McCoyas he will never be seen as a starting QB for the Brown’s.

    • LG

      KC, I too like Colt, I think he got a bad deal and was lied to by the Browns staff. Please believe me when I tell you this, I do not write these articles because I want McCoy to be the Browns starting quarterback. I want the Browns to win period. McCoy had a better rating and did ok with what he had to work with.. He smoked Weeden in the preseason and he didn’t even get a shot when Weeden threw for a 5.1 rating in his 1st game. The Problem is Weeden isn’t posting all kinds of wins and that is what is pissing me off. We have talent on this team and I do think McCoy has a ton more heart than Weeden, if he was given a chance I’ll bet we would have won some more games….Just my opinion…

  33. ABrown

    Rick, I just found your source for that bogus long pass number. LG, Pat Shurmur is making up statistics and feeding them to willing media flunkies (see “Weeden in good company”)

    Shurmur is actually using the stats he makes up to then contrast this year with last year and “prove” that the team is “getting better” and slander McCoy.

    Shurmur is so desperate he is actually lying to the media. “27 completions over 20 yards” is complet BS. Weeden has 11 completions over 20 yards, the same number as McCoy averaged in his first 8 games of 2010 and 2011.

    The brain washing is no accident. It comes from the Browns Head Coach and most of the media are not professional enough to question it like LG does.

  34. JoeC

    I’ve come to the conclusion that you’re just troll who posts trash for this garbage website simply looking to get page hits.

    • LG

      Hey Joe C, I think you are crazy. If the team was playing the way we were promised I would write promising articles. Here’s a news flash for ya pal, they’re not….

  35. marty

    ABROWN, Your are on fire tonight. The editor is doing a good job. If he wasn’t getting comments then he wouldn’t be doing his job. Facts are important.Colt was never actually benched for his performance. Management say he was, and non-informed fans take it as the gospel truth.ABROWN how accurate was the long throw completion that colt threw in preseason. Does any body remember his passes were all on the money. Most of weedon’s long passes were off target. I remember a pass 20 feet above the receiver’s head. Throwing a ball with no one close to you will be more accurate, then a pass thrown will players hanging onto you. I will say a long completion made is a thing we hold our breaths for. The play has to be called and you have to have a realistic chance.

    • Sam

      Marty, no one remembers because the preseason does not count. Here is the most convincing logic: If colt mccoy could not start on any other team in the NFL, why should he start for us? If another team thought Colt McCoy could be a successful starter they would trade for him right now because they could acquire him for a 7th round pick. According to Bill Cowher, who knows a lot more than we do about football, he ranked Weeden 3rd (only behind Luck and Griffin) out of the ten quarterbacks who are starting in their first or second years. That means Weeden could start on those seven other teams. Plus, throw in the Chiefs, Bills, Cardinals, Titans and yes, the Jets. That is at least a dozen teams that Weeden would be considered an upgrade at qb compared to ZEROOOO for Colt.

      • LG

        Sam, who ever said Colt McCoy couldn’t start for any other NFL team? If he was so worthless than why did the Browns keep him? They kept him because they know in their hearts they could win if forced to with McCoy. Don’t think for one minute the Browns were going to trade McCoy, they weren’t. If they wanted him gone he would be gone. The truth of the matter is the Browns were crapping their pants after they saw Weeden play in the Preseason and they didn’t know if Weeden could cut it. They knew McCoy could and they saw him win 4 games last year. Yeah 4 games sucks but there was a heck of a lot wrong besides McCoy last season. Seneca Wallace had three starts for the Browns last season, how many games did he win????

      • ABrown

        Sam, Weeden is 34th our of 34 quarterbacks this year(TQR). He’s even behind Blaine Gabbert. His performance level gets lowest when the plays are most important to the team. He rarely converts on 3rd down, and that’s when he has thrown most of his interceptions. Weeden is the king of 3-and-out.

        But the Browns front office has set out to sell Cleveland a lemon at QB and they are completely willing to MAKE UP stats to boost Weeden and slander McCoy.

        PR for Shurmur is BS. This week he sent flunky sports writers out to claim Weeden has completed 27 long passes in 2012, just one less than Andrew Luck, who, unlike Weeden, really does throw long passes.

        Weeden hasn’t even thrown half that many, NOT EVEN HALF. He hasn’t thrown any more than McCoy but the message is out and fans, like the Weeden defenders here, will attack anyone who questions the Head Coach Charade. It’s bad enough the Browns fans are getting screwed. It’s even worse when some of you are saying “thank you” when it happens.

  36. Dana

    I think the biggest problem the Browns have faced since coming back in 99 is the fans unrealistic expectations. When the owner listens to the fans, the product on the field suffers. We have no idea what it takes to make a winning team. I don’t care how much you love football or think you know how it should be done, you are wrong. A Cleveland fan for 50 years? How is it you have become so blinded from reality? Mike promised a better team this year. Better is a relative term. Does better always equal wins? I don’t think so. I don’t care what QB you place with todays team, the differance they make isn’t going to guarantee wins. Todays football is a team effort. You need an offensive line to protect the passer and a receiver that can run the route and catch the ball. A running back needs blocking. When all positions on the offensive line are firing in perfect harmony, you need to flip to the defense and be sure they can do the same thing. Special teams need to perform, the punter needs to get the ball as deep as possible. The coaching staff needs to understand what is going on and make adjustments.

    Do you really think all these pieces are in place to the point wins are purely the responsibility of Weeden or McCoy? I don’t see it.

    As fans we need to let the owner take care of things. We need to let the coaches make a whole season without demanding they be fired. Over a decade of QB bitching is getting stale. How are these QB’s supposed to gel with the receivers when they can’t play more than a handful of games?

    Do you want to enjoy Sundays game from now on? You are a Browns fan, forget about the win. If you want satisfaction, watch the game and look for improvements from each player. If the players have steady improvement, wins will come. If wins are what are most important to you, find another way to spend your Sunday. The only wins I want to see are wins we earn. If we win simply because the other team didn’t feel the need to prep for a game against Cleveland, what did we actually win? It’s a hollow victory at best.

    McCoy plays with more heart than anyone I have ever seen. I know when he plays he is doing everything he can to win. Weeden is a rookie playing more like a veteran every day. He’s learning from his mistakes and trying to play better. What he needs is exactly what McCoy needed last year and that is for fans to shut up and let him play without worrying how the fans are going to react. Why do so many of you act like we are going to mis the playoffs if a change isn’t made today? Let’s settle for forward progress which is measured in the overall quality of play and focus less on winning a title this season.

    I’m comfortable with Weeden and McCoy on the team. We actually have depth in a position now. Maybe with the draft next season we can improve on some positions or add some depth to the charts so the team is stronger overall.

    • ABrown

      Dana, that was beautifully done. It takes a lot of talent to INSULT people in such a pretty way that they don’t notice it.

      You said that the fans are the biggest problem with the Browns since 1999, that we cause all the problems on the field.

      You said we shouldn’t say anything about the coaches or the team because we don’t have a clue about football and how it should be played.

      You said we need to butt out and let the owner and coaches take care of things. If we want a winning team, we should forget about being Browns fans.

      All we should do is keep buying tickets and filing in to the stadium to watch the team with very little expectation other than to see a little improvement here and there in individual players.

      Sounds to me like you don’t have a very good idea about football either. Passionate fans are part of the game. Coaches and players will be discussed. If the team isn’t winning there will be complaints. Football is a rough game on every level and most people involved understand that.

      You mentioned one thing that needs to happen but isn’t happening. You said “The coaching staff needs to understand what is going on and make adjustments.” That’s exactly what hasn’t been happening and why fans will continue to call for a much needed coaching change.

      Fans know a lot more about football than you think and they have a right to discuss and learn. Commentators have a right to keep people informed, especially when the information from the coach is so misleading.

      The name calling and personal insults and lies from fans about players are way out of bounds and that should definitely stop. A head coach scape goating the quarterback for all the problems with last year’s team needs to stop, as well.

      But if you think looking at plays and game stats (as long as they are accurate) is disruptive and destructive criticism, you’re simply wrong. It’s what intelligent fans do to follow and understand the game.

      The Cleveland fans are an important part of the value of this franchise. How dare you tell them they CAUSE THE PROBLEMS ON THE FIELD and that they SHOULD STOP BEING FANS if they hope to have a winning team!!

      • LG

        Talk about well done!!!! Bravo ABrown

        • ABrown

          Thanks LG, and thank you, too, for yet another informative and stimulating discussion. Great Work!

          • LG

            Thanks ABrown, I am inspired by you My own Personal Professor who helps me to keep my head up after all the Insults I take….LOL plus I have thick Skin too….Did you read the latest piece I wrote about what Shurmur said today? You will really see a discussion over it too…

      • Dana

        I never said to stop being a fan. I think the problem you have is knowing the differance between being a fan and being an owner. When Mr. Lerner started making decisions based on fan feedback it resulted in a decade of rebuilding.

        LG, you shouldn’t be writing articles. I’m sorry. The problem you have isn’t grammer or punctuation, it’s the fact you aren’t objective. You make far to many statement where you “know” what the coaching staff and management say and do without having any actual first hand knowledge or proof to back it up. There is a huge differance between a factual statement and an opinion. If you have never talked to Shurmur you only know what he says to the press. You say if he had his way, McCoy would be gone and then blame him for feeling that way and chalking it up to another mistake. The issue anyone with some intelligence has with that is the fact Shurmur never said that and you have no idea what happens behind the scenes. For all you know, Shurmur is the only thing that keeps him here. As crazy as it may sound, Colts ability to be a viable alternative to Weeden is what keeps him here. I don’t see what you have against having two qualified players at the same position. It’s called depth on other teams.

        Fans do not know more about football than owners. Lerner being an obvious exception which is why he hired Holmgren. Do the fans on this site know more than Mike? No. So why the constant second guessing?

        I’ll leave you with this, do players play football or do players play stats? If stats are the Word on football, how is the worst team in the league beating other teams? Stats don’t lie, do they? If you want to be a fan and support your team, be a fan and support your team. Keep in mind you don’t support them by saying how much they suck and should be gone. Don’t cheer when they get hurt. I believe in my heart that Anderson’s career ended the moment the people he thought were his fans rejoiced when he was injured.

        • LG

          Dana with all due respect to you, I know what the Coaches and Management say because I listen to them very closely. Did you hear Shurmur this evening? I sure did. I am very objective too. This management and these coaches won’t be here next year so I wouldn’t worry about it too much Dana…

        • ABrown

          Dana, those statistics really get under your skin, don’t they? That’s too bad.

          There’s a great book from the 80’s called The Hidden Game of Football and it talks in a very readable way about using statistics to better understand what is happening in a football game. Most professional statisticians have found a lot of inspiration in that book.

          One of my heroes in the American Angus Association always said, “If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it.” That thinking has made the Angus Assoc. performance data the best among breed associations and has allowed Angus breeders to run circles around other breeds in making genetic progress. There’s a reason Certified Angus Beef is a quality brand.

          I’m not for a minute comparing players to cattle ranching. These are just examples of something I’ve seen in many areas that concern me, whether it’s sports, ranching, technical stock trading, or teaching and educational innovation, learning to work with meaningful measures always adds up to better understanding.

          I’ve never liked hearing someone say, as you do, that people shouldn’t be talking or writing about a subject. You might want to think about nipping those control and censorship impulses in the bud. They are way out of line.

          And tell Mike, as you refer to him, that I and a lot of other people have enormous respect for his great coaching career and wish him only the best.

  37. RICK

    Well put DANA I agree. Sorry LG but a lot of games go to the wire every week if your looking for the perfect team don’t hold your breath.

    • LG

      Not looking for a perfect team Rick, Just one that can compete without us holding our breath each time they line up…

    • ABrown

      What I would like to see, Rick, is a team that can drive the length of the field in the 4th quarter and score the winning touchdown.

      What’s crucial to that is a quarterback who thrives on that moment and raises the level of his play into overdrive — not one who wilts and is almost certain to make some silly mistake that stops the drive before it even gets goins.

      I remember Roger Staubach and Joe Montana playing like that and John Elway. Right now we have the Mannings, for example, and the newcomer Andrew Luck who has already led that kind of drive 3 times, I think, this year.

      (I’m also tempted to remember watching Colt McCoy do this over and over again in college, and he was, I believe 9th in the league last year in such drives, but some of the readers will have a coronary at the thought that McCoy could play well, so I won’t mention it. :)

  38. RICK

    ABrown, you can get your little stat book out all you wan’t but it won’t change the fact that Weeden is going to start. Guess you will have to get used to it or complain every week about it. Maybe Haslem will get Colt in in before the end of the season and make your year. Please don’t give me an “f” for my thoughts.

    • ABrown

      Rick, at least the numbers I cite are REAL. Doesn’t it bother you that you read an interview from Shurmur and had enough faith to quote him, only to find out you had been duped?

  39. RICK

    Thats the difference each week for most teams in the league. It comes down to the final seconds and it depends who can finish, which in a lot of cases comes down to the coaching ( back to the coaching problem)When the Browns start finishing games they will get over the hump.

    • LG

      The Browns have no Head coaching…This is the big problem…

  40. RICK

    Those damn people at Fox are spewing out the conspirocy theories and trying to slander MCoy (What a joke) LMAO Wow the coach hates MCoy so bad he kept him on the team to slander him all year it’s the story of the year. Great work to uncover the truth.

    • LG

      Rick, I don’t think it is far fetched to say that Shumur doesn’t like Colt McCoy. If Shumur had his way McCoy would have been gone. Good thing Heckert and Holmgren stood in there for the kid otherwise Shurmur would have made another mistake. McCoy did give the Browns the best chance to win if Weeden goes down compared to Wallace or Lewis…

  41. RICK

    LG, I think most people are in agreement with that statement.The players are progressing more than him. Hopefully a new coach is in order but that is another problem finding the right coach since there is good chance that the coach that you get was fired by someone else. There is usually a reason that they got fired before. They just seem to recycle through the league so it’s a gamble with any coach that you get.

    • LG

      Rick that is why I would really love to see Bill Cower or Dungy get the job. Lots of people think Cower woudn’t do it but he loved Cleveland and he loved the Browns and Haslam has to have met him…

  42. RICK

    Who wouldn’t want Cowher but I think thats a fantasy. Maybe we can bring someone out of retirement that is hungry to build a team.

  43. Wane

    if if if if if if PLEASE!! we have beat the dog enought at there anybody other players on the team this year to write about? your beating a dog that can’t bark. i think the pooch is getting sore and has had enought.

    • LG

      LOL Wane….


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